GASSER MUST HAVES and cant haves?

I've have done told you that we were playing by the rules they were the ones that were not. We went ahead and put on a show for the fan even though we knew we were not going to get payed. You just admitted you didn't know that we made the runs because you left the track. If you have anymore on this subject PM me so we don't kill this thread but I hope you don't because it don't make since for me to waste my time trying to make you understand.

 

None that I'm aware of, but I am so glad that Jeremy has done such a bitchen job showing us what it would have been like

 

Well, as the guy who put on the event, I should probably weigh in.
First, no, if I was standing in the tech shack assigning classes to the cars, I wouldn't have put the '58 in the Gas class. It was our first event, there are bugs with every first event. I'm not going to throw my class guy under the bus about it. There are a couple things to know: One, the guy putting the cars in the classes was blowing up Ardun flatties on the salt when most of us were shitting green (or before), he headed the build that put Don Garlits in the 200mph club, he owned Ai Fiberglass forever and built more race car bodies than any of us have ever looked at, and he's owned and raced more cars on the drag strip and salt flats than most people. So he's not a dummy. If people don't want to respect him because he's a stand-up guy and my friend, then respect him for his well-earned experience. I won't have anyone talk shit about Rich Venza. Period.

Second, if you have a problem with the way things are, you come talk to ME. You don't bitch at my class guy, you don't bitch at my high school kids working for me, you don't track down the track manager and bitch to him, you find the guy in the black flamed shirt and talk to him. I wore the shirt SPECIFICALLY so I would be easy to find and point out.
Everyone else on the property had no problem finding me yesterday for a million things, but I had to hear "Quain is really pissed" from the track manager. I met you for the first time the night before, and your first words were complaining about where you were pitted. Not "Hello," not "How's it going," not "Think it'll be a good show tomorrow?" like the two dozen other people who showed up on Friday night. "Could you park us any farther away?" was how you greeted me.
Yeah, I can, as a matter of fact. But I'd rather not, so let's start over with "Hi, pleased to meet you" and a handshake next time, shall we?

Third, the time to lodge a complaint with the guy running the show is as soon as you see the problem. In this instance, that would have been during any one of the first three qualifying runs of the day, when the car was sitting in the same lanes and running next to you. NOT after qualifying was done, the ladder was made and we were trying to get the Eliminations started. (which was a whole different problem that I will be addressing with the track for next year's event) After Round Two of qualifying, it wasn't a surprise he was in the class with you.

I was just a little busy yesterday and didn't actually see the car until I was made aware of the problem. The owner is a HELL of a nice guy, and I would wager the entire purse payout for all five classes that if I'd have asked him during any one of the three qualifying laps to drop out of the class and explained why, he'd have said "Sure, I understand."

Now, as for "pulling the rug out" or going down to the pits hat-in-hand and begging to make some passes for the fans?
I went down there and asked REPEATEDLY what I could do to make things right for you guys, up to and including giving everyone in your group the bottom half of the payout money since they said they were going to drop out of the class and let the other two cars just go for the purse.
I made the offer repeatedly, and was turned down every time. I even went back and talked to them a little later.
My concern had nothing whatsoever to do with having your guys run in the show to "put on the show for the fans." My concern while talking with the guys in your group was first, foremost and 100-percent "What can I do to make you guys happy and make this right for you?" Why? Because there was a problem that concerned YOUR group, and I wanted to make it right for YOUR group... If someone is not happy, I try to do everything in my power to make them happy.
Because that's the right thing to do.
Any problem or disappointment with the fans at not seeing your group run, would have been viewed by me as a second, separate problem.
I was told not to worry about it, the other guys in your group weren't upset once we had it straightened out--They wanted to drop out of the official brackets, and make a couple passes grouped together. I was told THEY wanted to put on a good show for the crowd as much as I did, and that's why they were here running. "We'd have come here and gladly paid to run if there was no purse at all. We do it for the fans." is what I was told.
I told them repeatedly that I wasn't happy with that because there was purse money involved, and you guys paid to come in and race for purse money, and I didn't think it was right to not pay the purse because there was a legitimate complaint with how things went.
I was told you guys would run Chicago Style to put on a show for the fans.
I don't even know what the fuck "Chicago Style" is, but we all came to an agreement--those guys wanted to run, but they didn't want to run with cars that weren't period correct, because they don't want photos out there of their cars running modern cars.
I was happy with that, because it made them happy.

For instance, if you were there at the Driver's Meeting in the morning, when it was announced to everyone there that we only had ONE Front Engine Dragster show up to run in a class that had a $1,000 purse, what did I say? "Congratulations! You won the FED Class! Come pick up your winnings at the end of the day! But you have to qualify, so make some passes." I also said it wasn't his fault nobody else showed up, so why should he be penalized by me?
And I said that with the knowledge that the car count for all classes only covered less than $3,000 of the $5,000 purse I committed to pay out.
I have over 50 drivers that will attest to me saying that.
So please don't make it sound like I crawfished or tried to back out of anything.
Nor did I come hat-in-hand and ask you to save my show, because that didn't happen.


You were NOT involved in any of the discussions with me about the problem, so please do not come on here and post what was said--you weren't there for the conversation. I asked specifically if we could get you, and was told not to worry about it, they'd explain it to you.
My concern at the time was exactly what I have here now. I knew that if there was going to be a problem about it in the future, it wouldn't be with any of the guys I spoke with directly, so I wanted everyone in your group there.


The guys in your class are a REAL stand-up bunch of guys, and I hope with all my heart they come back... not because it helps my event, because in five years I'll have a class slap-ass full of straight-axle gassers, but because I want guys to have fun at my event, and in talking to them, and hearing the enthusiasm about their cars and racing them, I know they have a good time. THAT is why I put on this event--so people come and have a good time. Period.

I understand there was also a bunch of problem running against the Zoro car... It was built in '68 and competed in the gas class for several years. It still has the original chassis and engine. Frankly, it's more of an authentic gasser than the '57 in your group, if anyone cares to throw stones.
I do NOT care to throw stones. It's a flat fuckin' bitchin car, and will ALWAYS be welcome to run in the Gas class at all my future events. As will the Boss '57 from your group.

You finished your post with "So bottom line, we made the trip for nothing."
I'm very sorry you feel that way. Truly, I am. Remember the very first thing I said at the driver's meeting? I told all the racers "The first thing is this: I put this event on so everyone would have fun--the racers, the fans, the people in the car show. That's why I set up the classes so everyone gets to make passes all day."
I don't think, or at least hope, the rest of the guys in your group feel the same way you do. I'd like to think they had fun. They seemed like they did.
You, however, seem like you didn't have fun, since you "made the trip for nothing."

There is very simple solution to that for the Gear Jam's "Second Gear" race next year...

To everyone else, thanks for coming to my event, and I hope the problems I had pulling off my first-ever race didn't detract too much from your enjoyment. There were problems on my end from the time I opened the gates to the time I left the property... that's part of putting on a show, and a guaranteed fact for a first event. I'll be better for the second one.

I hope to see most of you back next year.

-Brad

 

I guess that's the difference between you and I, I'm more interested in how it was than how it might have been if.

 

"If your talking about me I actually made as many passes (2) as Quain made yesterday!"
So what numbers did the old moon rocket lay down?

 

LOL Well one fellow told me my pass looked like a mid 12 sec car with a 14 sec driver!

13.23 with a 108 MPH.

I watched a buddy blow a trans just like mine earlier in the morning so I was a little scared to whip it off the line.

I rolled the beam on the second pass and didn't even look at the ticket.

 

Brad543 I guess we are going to get this thread shut down but I can't let you bash me with out responding. First off I never met you, you talked to Jeremy and Greg. We got to the track Friday night just like your add said we could and had to pay $10 per head to get in because something else was going on. Then there was no one there to tell us where to park so we picked a spot unloaded our stuff and got set up then just before dark someone comes over and tell us we have to move so we pack up and move. Someone from the group may have bitched about it but not me, like I said I never met you.

The next thing the problem was not just with the 58 ford there was a nova and another car that looked like a pro mod with a top fuel wing. (Just so the people with these cars know I love their cars and don't have a problem with them they just didn't fit the rules that were posted). We had no idea when we seen the cars in the pits that they were going to be running in the gasser class or we would have came and talked to you then. We found out in the staging lanes when the guy at head of staging told us that we had to run with them. At that point I told him that we would not run with them that they were not even close to being within the rules that you posted and are still on your web site (I posted them on here a few post back) I asked him nicely to let who ever was in charge know why some of the cars were making single runs and to have you come talk to one of us and at some point you did talk to Greg and Jeremy not me. At no time did I or any member of our group say anything out of the way to him as a matter of a fact he said that he didn't know why they were even there because of the wheels they had.

As for the tech guy Jeremy or Greg one said that you are the one that blamed him and that is what I stated on here I never bad mouthed him. I didn't track down the track manager I didn't even know who he was he came to me when I was getting ready to make my last run and told me he was sorry that the deal was so screwed up and that it was not his fault I don't remember what I said but I'm sure that I agreed with him.

As for running for free that was our choice we had done made the trip and was trying to give the fans a show. The only reason I said anything about that on here is because moonrocket said we did the fans wrong by pulling out and I was just letting him know that we made runs for the fans even knowing that we were not going to get payed.

If you have read the last few pages you will know that I didn't start this I was trying to defend our group from who ever this moonrocket dude is (That has started up trouble on threads before) I had to tell it like it was or he was making it sound like we was doing the fans wrong.

I didn't ever go look at the zoro car but correct me if I'm wrong but is it a flip top center driver car with way more than 10% engine set back and slammed to the ground as your rules stated it could not be.

For the last thing I don't know where you got that I didn't have a good time because I did. I would not have come if I had know it was going to be the way it was but the group and myself made the best of it and had fun. As for making the trip for nothing that was because we gave up the money to not have to run cars that didn't meet the advertised rules that we thought we were coming to race with but that was our choice. We still had fun. If you have anything else to bash me on please call me you have my # so we don't get this thread shut down.

 

Let me stop your runaway freight train of thought right there. You cannot do this in a practical manner in 2013. It was a good way to do things in the 50s and 60s but that was before the aftermarket parts became cheap and easy to get. Impossible to police. Forget it. It won’t work. If you want to run heads up cubic inch to weight, NHRA already has these classes. They are called “Comp Eliminator” and “Pro Stock”. Grab your checkbook and go have fun.

Again… how are you policing this? Who will be responsible to check this? Are they doing it for free or do you have some sort of budget to pay someone to check fuel? Don’t make rules you have no way to enforce.

I just shot a couple of huge holes in your rules “off the top of your head” and I didn’t leave my keyboard. I don’t have time to keep going but you get the picture. Maybe you should look harder at what some folks have tried very hard to do before you start hammering away on a keyboard. It’s easy to criticize from the front seat of a 13 second car or when you are leaning against the spectator fence.<O</O
<O</O
I fully expect you to tell me in your response how much you agree with me but backhandedly criticize something I typed here. <O</O

 

To maybe get back on subject. Not sure how many tunnel rams were on Gas class cars, but they definitely were mas produced well before the end of the Gas class.

1968 ad from Edelbrock:

 

Uh Ooh, you got me, my secret is out, I don't care about the way it was. View attachment 2041105

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I asked Gene Cromer about this because we allow them in our group he said they were available even before this thanks for posting this

 

Quain, many don't know the story, but this tunnel ram design was "borrowed" from Ralph Ridgeway. Remeber the old Ridge Runner Tunnel ram, Ridgeway stude girdles? Ralph was running his small block '55 chevy in Modified Production which allowed any thing the car manufacturer had made up to that date. Ralph took a '63-65 removable top Rochester's Injector, removed the lid, bolted a flat aluminum plate on top with two 409 AFB, plugged the air meter and injector holes and whoooped ass. For all you log ram guys, this first, very crude "production tunnel ram" was only 63HP! better at 7000 than the ram log/cross ram on Edelbrock very own 331" Modified Engine, and by the way the ram log had bad fuel stand off at 3500rpm, and quit after 6000rpm

 

Just so we're all on the same page,do we all agree that:

1. This was kind of a cool little thread to begin with

2. We would hate to see it shut down for bickering

And

3. This whole mess was pretty much instigated by a guy with a slow car trying to talk smack to the guys with the legit cars who went through all the hard work of building authentic looking,hard running,period style "Gasser" type cars,organizing a group,organizing some rules to keep it on track and enjoyable,going through the trouble,work,and expense of towing all over hell's half acre to run at tracks all over the place where people can enjoy the racing like it used to be back in the day.

Then said dude proceeds to stir up a hornets nest with shit talking,insults,and,whenever challenged,copious amounts of back pedaling.

I for one am sick of this shit.Quain and his guys work hard at keeping this legit.Its a big deal to have something like this around.Open it up to any style wheels?Who the fuck goes to a Gasser race to see tube chassis,billet wheeled,ProMod winged cars?Nobody,that's who!
If you want to see cars like that buy a ticket to any NHRA race and knock yourself out man.

Until then,let the big boys step up and run the real cars,and you can keep on NOT running your 13 second car because "your buddy broke a transmission just like yours,so you were afraid to launch"....?Huh?

Basically:Quit talking shit to these guys that work so hard to make the HAMB,and drag racing in general,a much more happy place for the rest of us.It just irritates everyone around you,and draws attention to the fact that you are only trying to cause shit,then never seem to want to face the music every time somebody calls you out.

Go run a Honda Civic if you want to talk shit,be slow,and make excuses why you can't run your car tonight....


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The Ramchargers ran a home made Tunnel Ram in 1959 and 1960

--- Steve ---

 

I've seen two of those modified/cannibalized Rochester injection intakes set up to run carbs. Wild looking for sure!
Remember too that the early Pontiac Super Duty engines and the Z-11 427ci 409-based engines had what can best be described as "Medium" tunnel rams... they weren't the usual low 2x4 intakes of the day, but they weren't tall single-plane 2x4s either. They were definitely on the path to being what we recognize now as Tunnel Rams though, before '64.
You made reference to the "log rams" and cross rams...
Designers were sneaking up on Tunnel Rams for sure by the mid '60s. By the late '60s, they were IT.

As someone said, there was definitely a transition in the Gas class in the last half of the '60s... The Malco Gasser exemplifies it perfectly... My friend Lamar Walden successfully campaigned a Vega-bodied flip-top, center-steer, injected big block in A-Gas, several months before Chevy released the Vega (factory hook-ups for a loaner body to pull molds from).

"A center-steer, tilt-body, tube-chassis Vega?!" you say? "That's not a Gasser!"
Drop a '33 Willys body on the chassis with a Technicolor Paint Job, and you've got the Prock & Howell "F-Troop" car.
I doubt anyone would look at that car and say "It's not a gasser."

-Brad

 

Well said. and here is a couple more pics to prove Moon Missles point that I don't care about the way it was.

 

About tunnel rams, look plays into it like everything else. New vs. old, especially when in an open engine compartment. Just depends on how much of a stickler you are. I would give big points on having a old box plenum or even a single Dominator tucked under a hood over a contemporary version and a corny scoop any day. I like quick cars but the biggest thrill for me is a convincing look at page from the past. Kind of like going to Disneyland.

 

Here's your scoop

 

Brad, although the F Troop car is a nice piece built in my neck of the woods, what organization allowed this car to run in gas and when?

It seems to be built similar to to Zorro's Charger Kellison with the tube chassis. Was this car ever allowed to run in any sanctioned gasser race? It appears the set back is greater than 10% at a quick glance although Kellison's stock configuration would be one stickler for the tech guys of the day.-jim

 

Are you saying that you couldn't be trusted to use the correct fuel or are you says everyone else couldn't be trusted?

As far as having to police engine HP or size, a rule allowing only a certain size rear tire and suspension type would pretty much do that. 1000 HP wont do you any good it you can't put it to the ground.

And you can bet your ass there were a hell of a lot more 13 second "gassers" than there were 9 second ones back in the day!

Hell, anything would be better than simply classing on "looks".

 

I don't see one stroked BOSS in the bunch? What's your point?

 

Ohhh... yea.. no one would use fuel they aren't allowed. Especially if there was money on the line... LOL

Ohhh... as far as limiting tires and suspensions, today's NHRA STOCK eliminator cars are now in the 8s using a 9" tire and STOCK suspensions. And... they are very close to 1000 hp now..

Sorry I brought it up. Obviously you have it figured out. Carry on.

 

x2!

 

"Ohhh... yea.. no one would use fuel they aren't allowed. Especially if there was money on the line... LOL"

So, just how much money would have to be on the line for you to cheat?

 

I'd love to see the sanctioning body Mr Armchair Quarterback would be in charge of.
Random
Arbitrary
Off My Meds
Racing
Coming to a track near you soon!


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Moon Rocket, is there anything anyone can say that will stop you from dragging down this thread, or stop you from stirring up shit? PLEASE!

 

"Ohhh... as far as limiting tires and suspensions, today's NHRA STOCK eliminator cars are now in the 8s using a 9" tire and STOCK suspensions. And... they are very close to 1000 hp now..

Sorry I brought it up. Obviously you have it figured out. Carry on. "

Yes, and there are nostalgia Gassers running low 9 second times. About the only thing holding them back are the poor aerodynamic bodies.

One of the things I don't understand is everyone claims to want to keep the new built cars as correct as possible with the exception of current safety standards.

But they want to run a hell of a lot faster than the originals did!

You can't have it both ways.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

Wow, I have learned so much here today. Cast edelbrock tunnel-rams are "period-correct" back to '59, because the ramchargers made one from rad hoses, and Gassers ran alky...Man, I didnt know nothin' till I joined the HAMB...

 

There's a full tank of stupid,and it's a loooooong drive,so I think we all better buckle up!Lmao!


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