GASSER MUST HAVES and cant haves?

I know when gassers first allowed fabricated chassis they were 2 X 3, but I thought they allowed round tube chassis later. As usual, I could be WAY wrong.

 

The last hurrah for blown gassers, Phil Featherstone, '76 Winternats, won comp eliminator. Former Panella Bros car. Trying to think, pretty sure this was the last NHRA eliminator win by a blown gasser. Probably one of the the most historically significant gassers of all time, it recently appeared fully and perfectly restored in event coverage on the HAMB, I was the only one who commented on it. Guess its not jacked up four feet in the air, so it doesnt count. Gotta wonder just how secure our history is when a gasser with that sort of pedigree shows up restored and no-one gives a shit...


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As it appeared on the HAMB a couple weeks ago...Destroked 301" early hemi.


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Yea, they did away with the blown gassers, but the lower classes still ran until NHRA did away with Modified Eleminator.

 

Thanks , it's not period perfect as didn't have the money/budget for that, the car is actually grey primer.
I would of loved to have used a Hemi or 427 but here the prices are mad, I went with something I already had which was a 1969 Cadillac block, done a lot of work with good parts and now have. 8/71 on a 514ci motor pumping out 750-800bhp, enough for some good old fun !!!

I'm in Texas on holiday at the moment but hope to get it base lined when I return next week.

 

I've been thinking about the period correct cars and I for sure would love to own one BUT with the price of parts it's way out of reach of most enthusiasts so is it not at least in some way good that people are still building cars resembling the correct look ???

I really like Quains Willys but it has no lights or interior etc etc so not exactly period perfect either but I don't see anybody moaning about that ?

 

Think I'm gonna go have a good cry now...Gas classes actually lasted longer than that, they were folded into Comp after MP was scrapped...

 

It has a full interior and it has lights, but I'm not sure if they are functional.

MELTDOWN DRAGS
JULY 19-20 2014

 

Ah my mistake then, I apologise, I only saw the early pics and didn't notice the interior.

 

you could be right, but I think it would be later, maybe around the time the N/A gas classes moved from MP into comp? In the early/mid seventies, the gassers I saw (and there were a few, I was working evenings in Bob Crosbies shop at that time) were square tube, like the opel above. The guy I referred to in my earlier post, Jack Mezzomo, built the first Pro-Stocker in western Canada, after it was too out-dated for Pro-Stock, it ran C/A. The chassis wasn't legal in Gas, this was around '75. I have an NHRA rule book from '76 around here somewhere, but its buried in a box of old crap somewhere, would take me days to find it.

 

I just hung up the phone with Lamar and got the details:
The Vega was legal for A/Gas in the AHRA, was campaigned all over the SouthEast at sanctioned tracks, and he did very well with it.
For the flip-top cars to be legal for Gas class, he said it had to have an operational driver's door.
Interestingly, the Zoro flip-top car has a functional driver's door--which leads me to believe the Zoro car did, in fact, race in a sanctioned Gas class in the South East--as the owner has told me in several conversations.

I don't know the history of the Prock n Howell car, but it makes me wonder if they every campaigned in Gas class in an organization that wasn't NHRA. I would think very few people would build a car that style specifically to make exhibition passes.

People forget that NHRA wasn't the only game in town back in the early '70s.

-Brad

 

Could just mean that a lot of us missed that thread post. I know I don't spend time going through the whole HAMB looking at every new thread, so sometimes I come across a really great thread and find it's been around for months before I see it.
Don't take a lack of response as nobody giving a shit; it isn't always the case.

 

You're probably right Brad, not many would build an exhibition car back then, but many built match race cars, as at the end of the gas era match racing was paying big bucks, and those who did well got paid to show and race, even if they didn't always win.
It's possible it was built for match racing, not exhibition races.

 

The tag line on this pic says "outlaw gasser circuit, 1968"
It appears to be a center-steer car, and it definitely doesn't have a driver's door. (thinking on it, Lamar didn't specify DRIVER'S door, he specified "an operational door.")

So if guys were going to "outlaw" tracks back then, and were watching cars like this one, and Prock n Howell, and Lamar's Vega (again, AHRA-legal gasser), they WERE called "gassers" back then.

Seems a lot of people here are complaining about re-writing history, yet some of those same people are saying "Those cars weren't gassers" even though tracks, promoters, fans and magazines of the era called them "gassers."

I think what I see happening is some are moving the goal-posts for the definition: First it has to be a certain style with a year cut-off (pre Malco Mustang), then it has to be NHRA-legal and only have run at NHRA-sanctioned tracks.

Sorry, for ME, that doesn't cut it. If a car like Walden's ran in Gas, and was promoted as Gas, and booked in as Gas, and won money as Gas, it was a Gasser. Period.
And if his car was, other cars from the era, and especially the region, that have the same build style as Walden's, such as the '68 Zoro car, or the Prock n Howell car, or the Hill Brothers car here, I believe they'd have been called "gassers" then.
And I think they should be now.

I'm reasonable--if someone can make the case where I'm wrong, I'll be happy to hear them out. But I've got one very successful racer on speed-dial who started his career in a blown, injected 409-powered '33 Willys gasser, and ended his career winning over 35 Pro Stock races in a single year. If he says the car ran Gas, then he car ran Gas.

-Brad

 

Exactly^^^.

Besides its years after the HAMB cutoff. I can't believe it didn't get locked.

MELTDOWN DRAGS
JULY 19-20 2014

 

Well I'm glad some of those threads don't get locked or booted, but understand when they do. Seems sometimes race threads get by, even if the vehicle discussed is past the cutoff date.
A lot of what we're discussing, or showing in this thread is not HAMB friendly, but still pretty darn neat! And speaking of neat; Ohio George's Malco '67 Mustang falls into this same place, but maybe the old Willys frame lets it slide! He used a '33 Willys frame also on his Mr Gasket '69 Mustang with the first TWIN turbo engine in Gas classes! It was so dominant that NHRA made it illegal and George had to pull it from racing. Ohio George was always an innovator, and rule bender! One of my favorites! That Mustang's SOHC twin turbo engine was supposed to be putting out 1800 HP back then, and ran .5 second faster than any of the best AA/GS cars at the time.

 

if people know the history, it makes it tougher to sell the Kool-Aid, and thats the business your in. Brad, you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum, an I get that, I am not even remotely trying to convince you, I realize you have a vested interest in seeing the history swept under the rug, and you have already said as much several times.

I get it, you hate drag racing history, and want me to shut the f*ck up. And I will, I'm gonna crawl back under my rock, and go back to holding my nose every time I see a "gasser" thread on the HAMB. Back to your regular programming.

 

Prock and Howell F Troop info. Nitro burning gasser.

http://timoszykfunnycars.com/ftroop.html

 

I wouldn't call it "sweeping history under the rug" myself. I think people like yourself and others know the true history, and are doing their best to keep it correct.
I think many of these events are a bit looser than you might like, but enjoyable at the same time. Just as most of us enjoy a variety of different builds, and aren't really so picky that we can't accept a guy running a TH400, in place of a real hydro, or a Hilborn style scoop sitting on carbs, or any BBC that lloks like an old 396 or 427, even if it's really larger cubic inch modern version.
Not everyone can own, or afford to build a real original gasser, or even a perfect clone. So when an event is put on that attempts to embrace the spirit of the old cars, there may be a few cars that push the limits. Hopefully it wont dilute the rest, but hopefully things wont get so strict that we can't enjoy the events without picking every little difference apart; just the big glaring errors.

 

The only thing that is certain is.. that George will not ever give in. What is or is not correct is stuck in his head, so the only way this ends is to get back to the question at hand. The OP has and old Hudson coupe not an opel or a vega. He states he wants it to be HAMB friendly not period perfect.

MELTDOWN DRAGS
JULY 19-20 2014

 

I sincerely hope George doesn't give in! As I said previously, we need people who know the history around, to keep things straight. I just hope it can be passed on, and then everyone interested can pick what works on their car, and not be ridiculed or persecuted if it's not a pefect example of a 100% correct or original gasser.
I know when I hit the local outlaw non NHRA track, nobody comes to me and tells me to park either of my cars. I usually have fun (even if I break!) and everyone seems to enjoy watching our cars go down the track.

 

I do know the history. It was built to stretch the rules for NHRA and was promptly outlawed when it showed up to be teched at it's first race. So they went Outlaw and Match Racing with it instead, and did well racing it that way.

 

I think perhaps you should pull the needle out of your arm before typing.
I don't know what kind of Kool-Aid you think I'm in the business of trying to sell... I was a magazine writer for 15 years and now I'm a show promoter.
I have ZERO idea what you think my "interest" is that I would benefit by "sweeping history under the rug." More importantly, I'd like you to tell me where I've "said as much several times."
Be specific.

And if you keep saying bullshit like accusing me of hating drag racing history, than yeah, you CAN shut the fuck up, because it's not true.

ALL I have done is shown examples where cars YOU are saying weren't gassers, did in fact race in sanctioned Gas classes. I've also asked a specific questions about cars that were posted here as examples of gassers... cars that, upon scrutiny, had center-steer, no doors, flip-tops, etc. The cars some people are saying weren't gassers, but then post pics up as examples of gassers.
I'm trying to learn here as much as anyone.
And now it seems that your panties are in a wad because I've actually done a little something called "research" and showed an example of something you said didn't happen, couldn't have happened, and shouldn't have happened.

And I was sincere when I said I'd like someone to explain it more to me. Since I was three months old when Lamar campaigned his Vega, all I can do is go by what people have told me... people who were there.
And among people who were there, just like every other situation in life, there's a fair amount of blow-hards, "authorities," bullshitters and people who flat get it wrong. Fifteen years in the magazine business has taught me who to question, and more importantly, who NOT to question.

If you would like Lamar's phone number so you can call him and tell him his car didn't compete in the Gas class, I'll be happy to make the introduction, and I'll let you two hash it out.

Until then, I'm just looking for answers and clarification.
I'm sorry you seem to have a problem with that.

-Brad

 

I did not mean give in on history. I meant that someone has to stop or this will be a world champion ping pong session. George won't stop so someone has to be the guy to steal the ball.

Besides if he wants to argue lets not argue over a way too modern super trick wearing OT super Gasser. There are plenty of old cars to discuss.

MELTDOWN DRAGS
JULY 19-20 2014

 

Cool!
See, that's the kind of info I'm looking for.
Now, it went "outlaw" racing.
When it raced in these outlaw events, what class did they register in? What class did the track owner and promoter bill it as?
And, did they race under any other sanctioning bodies like AHRA?

When FANS went to the races and saw that car run, were they told it was a Gasser, or where they told it was an Altered, or something else?

There's a specific reason I ask that: a lot of guys have been using the definition of "Gasser" from an insider's perspective from the time period. As we all know, an insider's perspective is often different from the fans' perspective. NHRA racers consider gassers to be only one thing... but as I've shown, AHRA racers considered gassers to be something else.
What'd the fans think the Prock n Howell car was?

And might their experience and perception be coloring the perception of what should be a nostalgia gasser today?

-Brad
Edit: I just saw the link. Seems the Prock and Howell car, and the Hill Brothers car, and two others, went on tour as gassers. (odd that I didn't know the history of that four-car tour, but managed to look at a picture and identify that they were both the same kind of build... and that they were posted by people here as examples of Gassers, but others said they weren't Gassers)

Turns out they went on an Outlaw Gassers on Tour.
Which means, they were called Gassers back then.

So why are we having a pissing contest about it now?
Oh, I know... because I want to sweep history under the rug by not calling gassers gassers, even though that's what they called themselves then, that's what the fans and promoters and tracks called them then, and that's what AHRA classified them as.

Again... will someone please tell me where I am wrong? All I ask is that you be SPECIFIC. No name calling, no insults, no accusations. I just want to know why a car like the Zoro car, or Hill Brothers or Prock and Howell, built in a similar style to a known AHRA A/Gas competitor, isn't considered a gasser.
Even when people at the time called them gassers.
-Brad

 

...

 

I think there might be some folks who in an effort to not dilute the strictest sense of the word "gasser" that may be arguing the term being used on cars that didn't meet NHRA rules. Even if the same cars ran at NHRA tracks, or in outlaw gas races. The match race "gassers" run by not only this "outlaw gas" group, but others like SWC, Big John, etc. were often match raced, and when the announcer was doing the play by play he didn't tell the crowd in attendance they weren't true gassers, or didn't meet the rules. It was simply a heads up match race with no rules, not with an asterisk beside it to let everyone know the whole story.
It's great to know the whole story, and know which cars strictly met the rules, and which were outlaw or match race gassers, but I don't think most people cared back at the time; they just wanted to see a great match up.

 

I just went through a stack of my old rulebooks - NHRA, AHRA, & IHRA and they all "officially" called the class "gas coupe/sedan" not "gassers". Today the word "gasser" is a slang word used to refer to cars that ran in the gas coupe/sedan class but is also used for many other things. If you look through the old publications, top gas dragsters were oftentimes referred to as "gassers" also. The term gasser has today become a word to describe a car with a certain "look". Thats why you see altereds, street roadsters, street freaks all referred to as gassers in some of these discussions. I don't believe anybody is trying to "re-write history". They are just not aware that to many the word ONLY refers to the old gas coupe/sedan drag racing class. Gasser could refer to anything that runs on gas, after all, its not "gasser tm" or 'registered" Hell, my grandson has a few go-karts and the ones that run on gasoline we call gassers but were not trying to say that they ran against Ohio George.

 

Here's the problem. Towards the end of the 60's and into the 70's the Gas Class cars were mothering away form what had been the Golden Era. The lines were even getting somewhat blurred between the FX and New Funny car classes. Certain tracks and even race organizations starting turning a blind eye to the rules, or re-witting them in order keep butts in the seats and make a profit. At the same time racers were pushing the envelope, with body style, flip tops, steering and anything else they thought they could get away with. In the end all it did was screw it up so bad that the classes died.
The HAMB is mainly concerned with PRE 65, and all those controversial cars don't fit that era, so they muddy up peoples opinions here. On top of that SOME of the race organizers are trying to stay true to the Golden Era, which for many of us goes to about 71-72 with the exception of cars like Ohio George's Mustang. In other words the cars that were still like the ones raced from the inception of the class in 1956 until the late 60's.
The reality is YES, some of those cars can be called "Gassers' in the true historical sense of the word. But that doesn't set well with folks that want to stay in an earlier time. So there will always be a disagreement there.
And then to mess it up even further you only have to look at what the NHRA is allowing in the Heritage series. between newer body styles, Wings, and modern blowers etc, they just aren't what most of us would call Gsssers any more.

I mean seriously, is this a "Gasser" in anyone's mind, except the NHRA Heritage racers?

 

Not in my mind it isn't! And I agree with what you're saying. It comes back to what I've read or heard people say many times; "you know a gasser when you see one."
And that includes many of the cars I see here and elsewhere that have been built in recent years.

 

Here is the REAL problem. We have all these different Associations and promoters popping up and wanting to have races for Gassers.
The promoter wants to put on a show and put butts in the seats and make money
The racer wants to put on a good show and be Competitive
The fan wants to have a good time and see some racing.

The problem is you have Gas Class cars that conform to rules from 1956 to today! On top of that you have "Outlaw" and Match race cars that don't particularly conform the ANY rules.

The early days were mostly street driven cars and by the rules had to have all street equipment, mufflers, upholstery etc. by the end of the category you had Ohio George's turbo Mustang (that was eventually banned) and then the Outlaw cars like Howell and Prock. In between you had the cars that MOST of the folks on here seem to like. Even my Anglia is a little too late in the era for some, what with it's aluminum interior and wheels tubs along with Coil Overs. But this was a legal NHRA car in 1968 with a track record at Irwindale and a National Record at Lion's in the early 70's.

So here's the issue, the early cars are way out classed by the mid to late 60's cars. The Outlaw cars will spank the "Legal" cars. The Modern cars will put all the rest on the trailer. So a promoter or Association has to either pick a set of former rules, or make up their own AND STICK TO THEM. So my suggestion for anyone who wants to put on a race of "Gassers" is to get some rules nailed down, publish them, and then have the balls to DQ any car that doesn't meet the rules. It's not that tough once you decide on your rules. You will NOT make everyone happy, but that's life. If you make your rules such that the cars like the Renteria's Valiant above that is the NHRA Heritage AA/GS Champion run, you aren't going to get any "Original" AA/GA cars to run against them. decide what cars you want, and stick to your guns.

i know with my car, at some events I can run B/GS where it has real his troy and at others I have may have to run it as D/GS because it won't run the number with how they have modified the rules.