Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Marcus,

Here is where I have to come clean on my front wheels. One of them is indeed a 15X6" American racing from very early production aluminum castings. That would be about '65-'68 or so. The other side is a copy of some sort that I have never really been able to accurately I.D. You really can't tell the difference with them both on the car, and with the exception of a 1/4" difference in backspace, I consider them a "matched" pair. The type is a pre "D" type spoke. That was the common American wheel in the Magnesium era '59-'64, and carried through to the first few years of aluminum production as well. The later "D" spoke is the one that you see most commonly these days because they have been reproducing it for about 15-20 years now. That's the curved spoke design that came out in about '67 or so to clear the disc brakes that started popping up on production cars. To me those always shout "Muscle Car" from 200' away. American does make what they call the TTO which is supposed to be a reproduction of my wheels, but for some reason they just don't have the right look to me.

For me it's got to be a 4-71. The 6-71s look just a touch to modern for me, even though they were around in the era I'm shooting for. If you pickup any magazine from '63 and take a look, if there was a street driven car with a blower inside it was a 4-71, most likely with a Cragar or Betty multi belt type drive. That's what is burned in my brain. Then take a look at the race cars in that issue and by that time they were all running the 6-71s. The 4-71 still isn't off the table, just for now it is.

I have had a couple of people P.M. me about it being kinda cruel that I make fun of my girlfriend like that. Truly, if she wasn't in on the joke it really wouldn't be funny! She knows that she is hard to understand, sometimes uses it to her advantage, (If your wife comes home someday from Nordstrom's Chandler with a 10,000.00 credit card bill, you'll know they found each other!) and wonders frequently why WE all speak so goddamn slow! If we would all just speed up to her level, everything would just be allot better!

Heck, I just helped her post a picture of her niece's Halloween costume (Rosie the riveter by the way... Ultra cool!) and spelling H a l l o w e e n was a major chore. It was summed up with, "Why in herr you people use so many retters!" Indeed sweetheart, way too many letters...

 

Hey, Chip;

LMAO... I know... It's called "shared laughs". It's only cruel from the viewpoint of those who know & are afraid of themselves, because they know themselves 'way too well - & can't trust themselves not to put others down. Long story I learned in Pyscology in college doing the "ed-block". 'Bout near the only thing worth learning during that whole (mostly wasted) year. But it did give me good insight into others' attitudes, (& resulting actions). As far as english is concerned, it was actually conceived & used to confound & hide meanings. But that's not for this forum... . I'm just glad I'm not forced to use latin, or sumerian, or arabic, or japanese, or chinese, or... I have enough trouble w/26 letters & 10 #s... .

Do know about the D-spokes, don't mind the D-spokes, but I agree w/you on "the *look*), & really prefer the straight - but very sharp-edged spoke (like the ~'early 70s funny spindle-mount look), which are hard to find, as most are rounded somewhere between a little & a lot. Spindle-mounts for the street are rather impractical, But I want the look as close as possible. Suppose I could find some T-70s & grind off the flange, but they're collectors now too = stupid$$$... . Wheel that got my attention was the rh side shot of the T you posted a few replies back. Thanks for the info on the wheels, + quick history on the Amer years.

Re: the 4-71, I know. Just offering up a suggestion (aka: giving you grief... ) . One of the things I've noticed since 'way back when, is that, most 4-71s usually (at least up into the early 70's) seem to use the 3-belt drive(including a lot of Instant-Ts from Brizio), although I'm thinking much-later Brizio stuff used a crager/isky 2" gilmer style. My preference for looks/function would be the 2" or 3" gilmer style, but I do appreciate the 3-belt drive. I suspect that it was limited to the 4-71 'cause of its' lack of grip for much over, what, ~ 5-6psi? Not ragging here, as the 4-71 was actually much better suited to smaller engines & the street, than the 6-71. I still think the 6-71 has better proportions. .

Marcus...

 

That is about two miles from my house.

 

I cannot wait!

 

Don't think that is a blower on your friends T (no drive belts) but your comment is still valid as whatever it is raises the scoop. The story mentions he machined the taillight out of a block of aluminum maybe he did the same with the carb riser or whatever you call it. Maybe a tall carb. riser is what you need to give you the look.

 

Almost looks like one of those box type, dual quad set ups? Louvers, I'm thinking you could make that type scoop to fit your car. Either glass or steel, it doesn't seem to have a lot of major thought into it. And you can't beat home grown.

 

Chip - found a scoop on Craigslist - much closer to you (it's in Bullhead City) for $50 - go check it out...looks like it may work,maybe with a bit of 'glass tweaking...


PM me for the guy's number (don't think I'm supposed to post it here).

Steve

 

That's the BIG one. The one Louvers describes is slightly longer than the carb.

 

I think I might have the scoop thing beat. I was looking at the thread on scoops, and Dean Lowe mentioned that Red Greth of Speed Sport roadster fame was still with us and made him a scoop from his original molds. This is the smaller tear drop shape that was featured in quite a few drag car pictures FalconGeorge posted a few pages ago. Well, Red is out of Tucson, and good friend of mine locally and here on the H.A.M.B. is Hot Rod Ron, who oddly enough grew up in Tucson before heading for the big city up here about 7 years ago. He knows everybody down there. He's working on Red as we speak... This, like the 4-71 deal is kinda like grabbing at straws sometimes, but to get the right stuff, sometimes, that's what it takes. Persistence pays off-sometimes.

 

The 4-71 is a far better choice on a street-driven 283 anyway. For a given amount of boost pressure, the 4-71 will build more boost earlier in the power band than the 6-71. If you go back and look, most of the best running small ci C/GS chevies in the sixties used 4-71's instead of 6-71's. (Hrudka, Moody & Jones, ect.)

 

First gen edelbrock TR-1...

 

If you guys are messing in the 60-66 c-10 world, do you know Dino Battaliana? Great guy, owns an appliance shop in PHX and throws a great all comers c-10 party Fri night before GG. Look him up on 67-72chevytrucks.com. Just a cool deal I thought I'd throw out, buckets lookin good!

 

Heck, I've known Dino for over thirty years now! For the fifth largest city in the nation, our hot rodder gene pool is a semi small and brackish inbred pool at best. We could actually go further with that one in that I have known JERRY from here on the H.A.M.B. via introduction from Dino about twenty years ago, and ElPolacko is dating his "step sister" (well, former employers daughter... long story) and I could go seven different ways on all that too. Hell, even my girlfriend the Incredible Miss Judy knew Dino before me...

Great Guy! Imposing when ya first walk up on him, but the nicest person you could ever imagine.

 

Damn gang, Today was like Christmas day! I hit the swap early this morning and picked up two steering wheels, one a Cragar gold glitter wheel that has burned back a bit and now is a matching brown glitter to the 'Bucket, and an Eelco with a smooth black vinyl rim that'll see duty on 'Ugly, a finned aluminum oil pan from my buddy Ron Olmstead, along with a chrome oil fill/breather tube and cap and some stainless hood rods. I'll find some time tomorrow to snap some picts and get them up.

 

Wasn't Mark Niver friends with Chauvin Emmons? I saw where Mark was killed sometime ago at an NHRA race in Washington state. I always liked the look of his roadster.

 

Hey Chip, you have an amazing way of expressing yourself and I have just now managed to pick myself up of the floor from the " Pumpkin " story. As somebody mentioned this is the best of the best threads on HAMB not only for what I'm learning from you and your regular posters but for the happy friendly patter between everybody here and the occasional Ms. Judy story. Keep it rolling please as I haven't had much to laugh about lately but that pumpkin got me going. Recently you posted a photo of Ugly parked outside Sir John Evans machine shop which I believe really shows the absolutely spot on proportions of the T. The other OT question I would like to ask is what you fella's may think is a dumb one, is those cactus plants in your yard the prickly type ? If so, one wouldn't want to be drunk and disorderly one evening and bump into one, it could bite you.

 

Yes, that was him. Chauvin was a genuine asshole with a heart of gold, and I didn't know Mark very well, but what a talented, nice guy that always spoke to me as an equal. It's a shame too, as we have a lot of the same friends in common and traveled in the same circles literally all my life. His buddy Dave Hill that was in that same picture posted is one of my mentors that I have known for about thirty years now, and is one of the funniest human beings on this planet. I rarely ever speak of "blessings" and such, but when I do I always talk about my group of friends that got me in this stuff as a semi-wayward kid and helped me learn the things I know today.

 

Thanks man! I just kinda like entertaining a bit in the between times when I can't be going forward on the car. And, you have to know that on this thread you have fallen in with the "bad crowd" of class clowns at the back of the class here on the on the H.A.M.B.! That group includes FalconGeorge, SteelRebel, Tfeverfred, Jeem, and a quite a few others... Detention is in your future, sir. I love that these guys have jumped on this thread, as with them and myself, frivolity reigns supreme. I thank Ryan BIG TIME for allowing this thread to veer somewhat off course at times in the name of fun. I haven't had such a great year this year either.

This next couple of weeks I'm going to be a bit sparse as far as posting, as I have to get Grant's(Endlessearth's) truck up and running for our fall Good Guy's event. I have missed deadlines for Good Guys with him twice on our previous collaboration by just minutes or a simple, 3.00, unobtainable part, and I can't let that happen this time. If I can think of fun stuff or pertinent stuff to post I certainly will. You guys know what to do while I'm busy though, have fun!

And yes, the cactus you see in my photos is my front yard. I live in the dessert southwest of the U.S., which is geographically way different than any other region of the U.S., so there are no stupid questions about the flora here. It's different than you'll anywhere else. The purple prickly pear cacti in the gas cap shot is covered with super fine sort needles that will indeed get you if you are not careful, and are nigh on impossible to pull out completely. I have some with more aggressive needles on the other side of my walk way, that absolutely suck to inadvertently back into - trust me on that one. Miss Judy killed and removed my cool "jumping Cholla" a year or two ago because it is attracted by static electricity and will literally "jump" off its stalk and stick to...ahem, her. So, long story short, ya, my yard would not be good one to drink and stagger in.

Thank you very much for the compliment on my 'Buckets proportions. It has been a challenge since Roy dropped all this dissimilar stuff off at my house and said "make car"...

 

Chip, we have cactus and prickly pears up here as well. Our climate is like you in many ways, Maybe a Flagstaff thing since we can get snow.

 

Whip

We have many prickly cacti here in North America. In the upper right corner background of this photos see the Agave. It has maybe one inch thorns (what is that in mm?) and Tequila is made from it. Another one next to our driveway just missed putting one of my wives eye's out. One eye. I only have one wife. I cut it down to the ground.

Okay just another reason to post a picture of my roadster.

Then again we need to keep this thread going while Chip is at work.

Gary

 

1" = 25mm well does sometimes on my measuring sticks but after I have made the cut ,I always find the stick was wrong. Thanks guys for the description on the cacti too guys and , man, they may look nice, but I don't think I could tolerate the prickly things in my yard. In that last photo of your T., is that a tow hitch at the top of the spring arch ?

 

No Wip that is an old club plaque. A garage find some years ago. The guy that sold it to me swore it was cast before WWII. It was cast at Oakland High School in Oakland California. I actually didn't attend Oakland High but I did attend another high school in Oakland. One of those once in a lifetime treasured finds. Actually I had passed it up on a table full of junk and my wife (yes the same one that almost got her eye poked out on the Agave) picked it up and said "I think you'll want this". I took it from her and got so excited I started shaking. The guy must have not seen my excitement and only charged me $1.00 for it. I've never seen another like it.

Actually we have a thorny plant here from "Down Under" we call It Star Thistle. It was brought here for the Bumble Bees because it blooms all year round and takes almost no water. I'll take the cacti you can have that shit.

Gary

 

But you never cut a corner or take a shortcut and that is what is paramount. Your work is always top notch and you never leave out the period-correct details. Car shows are a dime a dozen but having the respect for your finished projects from the guys that really know cars is priceless.

 

BAM!!!!!!!!!!!! there it is right there in a nutshell.


Your front yard is way easier to navigate then your back yard, I mean tent city, I mean Ali Baba hot rod shop when you have a rum and coke in your hand and Rocky at your ankles.

 

After Grant's truck is done we'll get on your exhaust system.

 

Had to goggle Star Thistle as never heard of it before and from what I found it originates from the Mediterranean Basin region so you can shoot all the I Ties that may of imported then, just make sure you take all their Fiat Bambino's off them first to built drag cars. What is the club on the plaque and , mate, a wife, yeah the only one you have, that goes to swap meets with you and even takes the time to check out the products on the table to make sure you haven't missed anything, is certainly a priceless keeper in any hot rodders book. I would cut any plant down to ground level too if it had attempted to remove one of her eyes with great satisfaction. I will probably get castrated now, but I personally love the look of your diff over the sort after quick change, there is just something about them that draws my eye too.

 

You're going to love the "full circle" story with that wheel, Chip. I got it in a '67 beetle that I had briefly...also spent time in my old F-100. Now it's in your bucket! I think I had found a Cragar ad that had that odd cutout pattern it has in the spokes.

 

Thanks Whip

For the look I was going for (middle to late '50s Norm & Tom) their were some things my roadster just had to have. Early steel T front half touring body, V8 60 tube front axle and the Banjo rear diff. I do agree with you that the banjo has a look and a quick change (although bitchin) takes away from.

You guys going for a '60s look have a lot more latitude.

Gary

 

In some ways, but some parts are a BITCH. Try finding a nice white plastic Hurst T handle with the Hurst "H" shift pattern engraved in the top, or worse yet, a Wedge Engineering "Cobra" scattershield. V8-60 axles are a dime a dozen compared to that stuff!

 

I told you guys that Sunday was a little like Christmas! First, Judy and I got up way early and headed out to this week's swap out at Glendale Community College, and ran into jimmy Smith (JEEM) and Mike Ray (Boston Mike) who were selling with another of their friends who's name escapes me (sorry). The first thing I saw was the cool Eelco steering wheel the friend was selling, and started working on that. Judy saw the sparkle wheel that belonged to Jimmy sitting on the ground and said that we "must have!", so we got both! The sparkle wheel probably was gold at one time, but after lots of scrubbing and rubbing compound is now glowing a happy root beer brown color that matches the gel coat on the bucket perfectly! YaHooo! I have always wanted a sparkle wheel, but most everything I have ever built was fairly serious street racer stuff or forties type cars where it wouldn't be appropriate. What's MORE appropriate than a T-Bucket for fun stuff from the sixties? Fairly rare wheel too, it's a Cragar "slots and dots"...

Went back home for a bit and Judy got going to work, so I headed over to Ron Olmstead's place as he had asked me to put the power steering back together on his '40 so he could sell it... I took the power steering off in May when he bought it, so I guess we back-graded it? Anyway, as I was upside down working under the car, I asked if he had ever had any sealing problems with the cast aluminum oil pans like the one on the shelf. He said that he never had, and I said I had been looking at one for the roadster.... Five minutes later he walked out of the shop quietly, and an hour later when I left, the cast pan was sitting in the passenger side of the 'Bucket! Also there was a chrome original Chevy front oil filler tube and cap, and a pair of stainless radiator support rods!

Like I said, Christmas a couple of months early! Thanks guys!