Acetone + ATF Penetrant: They don't mix!

I've read everywhere about this 50/50 Acetone/ATF mixture penetrant.

Acetone is supposed to be miscible in water and also oil - that is its unique property.

However this stuff I have will not mix with the ATF.

Now it could be an issue of time - how long does it take them to mix?

Any suggestions/explanations?

Thanks in advance,
Tom

PS. I encountered one other fellow in a forum that had the same problem. Unfortunately no one ever addressed it.

 

Non synthetic ATF ?

 

When I first mixed them I had the same problem, but after I let it set for a while, it seemed to mix. My question is does the mixture really work?

 

Oh yeah it works!!!

 

I let two joined parts sit for 5 days (I had forgot about it), when I tried to separate them.... nothing.

 

I have tried this mix, didn't do anything for me.
IMO Kroil is better.

 

I have tried this and other things from here on my 37 Dodge windshield frame, over 2 months now. NOTHING, I know it is just rust holding them together.

 

we also added peppermint oil( get it at a old pharmacy) you have to shake it up before you use the stuff it will seperate after time and you have to use non synthetic dextron II the synthetic dex III will not mix at all . its like cheap Italian dressing .. also it works better if the parts are 65-80 * below that it takes more time . been using this stuff for years , also the old army EDs red deleading compound works good at loosening stuff , but I have to dig thru my files in the locker to see whats in it .

 

Never tried the acetone+atf, but i did mix some lacquer thinner with marvel mystery oil and dumped it in an old steering box that was rusted solid. It finally broke loose after a few days. Might give it a try...

 

There are products readily available for soaking rusted parts, Evaporust, Metal Rescue, etc.
I have to ask why bother with chemistry experiments?

 

The heater and defroster motors on my '41 Chevy were stuck - dry bushings. Hadn't been run in over 6 years.

I took 'em out of the heater and drilled a small hole in the blind ends at the bushings so I could lube both ends. I mixed type F ATF and acetone 50/50 in a small bottle and used a Q tip to dab oil on the bushings. I lubed and turned the motors numerous times over about 10 days. They are both back in the heater and running fine.

Takes patience. 'Worked for me and saved me over $150 plus shipping for new motors.

 

Because it is an inexpensive, and often very effective penetrating oil, for freeing stuck parts.

 

Me, I now try 25/75 ****** fluid. seems to work better. acetone just used to make it thinner correct?

 

try adding a basil leaf.

 

atf- lacquer thinner- brake fluid

3 equal parts, works really good

 

been using this stuff since I was a kid on my grandpas farm , and it works better and is cheaper than the sprays or oils in the cans , I can make 1/2 gallon of this stuff for the price of a 8 oz spray bomb of the other and the other doesn't work as good .

 

So are you using used trans fluid or new stuff?? I get all the used I want and have noticed the more dirt/ban clutch particulites the less effective the mix is. In the warm months I leave my soaking parts in the sun the heat seams to help.. Some times I use K1 or number 2 diesel for rust penertrate.. If you want to try their are several threads on reverse electrolis here on the hamb.

 

Nice touch. Personally, I like a little parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme.

 

I've always heard great things about the 50/50 mix but have never tried it, usually use PB Blaster myself.

On a related subject, I recently tried CRC Freeze Off penetrant, stuff is amazingly good. I sprayed very rusty convertor bolts with it, put a rachet on them, and they broke loose immediately and all 4 came off with my fingers. I have used it on other stuff with similar results. Supposedly, it freezes the components and separates them so the penetrating oil can get down in there.

Try it, you'll like it.

Don

 

most rust is caused by water moisture. Just soak in water and most will free up jmo

 

Have used the 50/50 mix and it does work well. Lately my mix has been ATF and Lacquer thinner and I am still very satisfied with the results. I keep it in a spray bottle and usually give it a little shake when I use it.

 

Get the screw/bolt as hot as you can with a propane torch.
Pour the coals to it with penetrating oil, let it smoke but keep feeding it. The hot threads are wicking the oil down into them.
You wouldn't believe some of the rotten stuff I've gotten to unthread this way without snapping off. If the oil gets into the threads, you're good.

 

Wow, I touched a nerve with this topic! (and it did mine as well)

Interesting that DexIII won't mix while DexII will - I was using some DexIII and yep, it did not mix.

I'm trying to turn over an engine that was sitting in my car port for about 35 years. It was completely ***embled with exhaust manifolds and carburetor.

Last night I removed the plugs and they came with the proper small break away torque and once broken, I could spin them out with my fingers on the extension, not needing the ratchet.

The plugs looked good and had a nice black layer of "spark plug crud" on them - it is a supercharged Studebaker engine.

It has chrome rings.

I then ran a medical articulating bore scope into the cylinders and found they did indeed have a layer of rust on them, however, you could still see mirror like shiny surface between the rust deposits everywhere. In no place could I see 100% rusted surface.

I could also see little scratch marks in the rust where I lightly dragged the tip of the bore scope. So the rust was in a "delicate state" and not severe in my opinion.

So I took my shaken up ATF and DexIII and shot in all the cylinders.

The outdoor temp was about 15 degrees and I finished up at 11PM.

FYI, my pry bar is about 8 foot long on the rear end of the crank so I probably got about 1000 lb-ft of torque applied.

Now I only had time to do one load in each direction because I had to rotate the engine (in a dolly) and wedge under a steel work bench with almost a ton of cylinder heads on it.

Today I'm going to move the engine to the center of the car port and use a porta-power to push it down into the dolly so I can reverse load it easily and quickly. All it has to do is move a tiny amount and I will be on my way.

I was also thinking of compressed air but my hand calculations indicate that 100 psi will probably only produce at most 300 lb-ft.

One method - a messy one - is to pump the power stroke piston down with a grease gun. But what a mess in that cylinder.

Then I was thinking if I can find the right regulator, I could pressurize to 200-250 psi with argon, oxygen, or CO2 or whatever else I have laying around for my welding equipment.

And simultaneously push on the 8 foot "breaker bar."

So that is the story.

But seriously, I don't see how ANY penetrating oil could disturb the rust crystal matrix - I'm from the Old School where there is NO rusted fastener that cannot be removed when heated with an oxy-acetylene torch!

I'll have to get some DexII and try though...

As far as why acetone and not lacquer thinner, perhaps its ability to mix with water???

Who knows, there are all kinds of theories out there but its all trail and error ultimately.

Thanks again for all the interest!
Tom

 

ditto works way better then heat

 

I was tempted to get the Freeze Off but chickened out.

They had a video demo with an optical pyrometer and they sprayed a piece of sheet metal and it cooled down not quite 100 degrees F.

In the world of "heating with a torch," 100 deg is nothing.

However torch heating is a uniform heat.

If it were possible to produce an instant "microscopic" heat (or cooling), you might damage some rust crystals (!)

So maybe the FO might possibly work.

I called Advance Auto and they said they had it for $5.99 a can which is really cheap.

But I think I ruined any future attempt to use it because I've contaminated the rust with ATV/acetone - the instant wicking action would not occur and I don't think I'd get the microscopic instantaneous cooling.
_____________________

For GIGGLES: I thought about spraying a tiny bit of Starting Ether in the power stroke cylinder, screw in the spark plug, and spark with a coil and battery! But I don't know how critical it is to get the appropriate A/F ratio.

BMEP can spike to 5000 psi during detonation and I think 800-1000 is typical of an engine under load.

 

I mixed an old quart of atf from the 1970's with acetone and it mixed fine....don't know what type it was.
Only have used it on rusty tie rod ends that were in a solid drag link tube so far, but after a few days of soaking they busted free pretty easily where dry they wouldn't.

The jug seems to stay pretty mixed, but I give it a shake when I use it

 

All this, then you add it's a long block and has been in a frozen car port for 35 years, chrome rings, 8 foot breaker bar...

You should probably count on pulling the heads and pan and taking a close look to see if a long soak is warranted. Forcing this engine over at this point may mean scratching cylinder walls, breaking a ring or tearing up crank and cam bearings. You may be better off with pulling the crank and cam, then soaking the cylinders to free up the pistons. If it "ran when parked", you may be able to get away with doing a super clean up of the block and components and a re-***emply. Rings and bearings are relatively cheap compared to damaging the block, crank, etc.
Even if the engine is a rebuilt with zero miles, 35 years is a long time.

 

I was just going to EDIT my post and warn NOT to use oxygen because O2 + Oil + Pressure = EXPLOSION!

Of course obvious not to use fuel gas.

But Argon, Helium, Nitrogen are just fine (inert)

Since the cylinders are still showing shiny metal throughout, I'm inclined to still try to turn it over.

One thing, with a deal load on it (pressurized cylinder), each thermal cycle will start to break up the rust crystals.

NEW THOUGHT: How to pressurize all cylinders.

With Studebaker, they have rocker shafts which can be removed easily. If I pull them off, all the valves would be closed (I could hit the valves and verify none are stuck too.) Then I could pressurize all the cylinders.

 

gotta admit I was expecting that stuff just to be "snake oil", as in my 11 years experience asa professional wrench I have come across many examples of "snake oil" but this stuff works unbelievably well!!!!!!!!!!!! I've found it irreplaceable

 

I'm sure you know that you can't pressure all of the cylinders at the same time but you can pressurize 2 cylinders at a time with the valves closed as long as you select ones that are 4 places apart in the firing order on a 6 cylinder or 5 places apart on an 8 cylinder. I'd try it with air as it will help push the penetrating oil into the rings. Find cylinders that the pistons are halfway down the bore so the crankshaft is at 90 degrees to give the most leverage.

Did you check all of the cylinders with the scope? Some cylinders would have the valves open which would allow more moisture to get in and cause more rust.