I did search but ........I'm building a "belly /drop tank" car that is not a race care and will see very little street use. This is all old school ..or a hillbilly build What I have is a real nice 47 ford front axle with wide five's. The build will require a spring behind axle to get it low enough. It's a rear engine car so the front end will be very light The axle is too wide for best appearance. I can buy an axle with hairpins and spring from Speedway for 450 bucks but I'm want the look of a Ford axle...Maybe. I have the skills to cut out a section from the axle and weld it using fishplates for strength. With the body work on the car the center of the axle will be concealed. Then fabricate a spring behind the axle set up from . Or just buy the Speedway tube axle kit and be done with it?
There's a long thread on this - consensus of opinion is to make a long staggered cut to maximise the weld area and get a certified welder to do it. See here for full instructions; http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168603 Whether it's safe or not is a subject of some discussion.
You can totally narrow the axle if done like above and welded correctly it's no big deal. Some racing bodies will have a problem with it. Ten thousand guys are going to chime in and tell you it's not safe and road safety inspectors would never allow it etc...
A long splice weld as shown will be as strong as the original axle if welded properly. Lots of Ford twin I beam axles, 1980 up, were welded up from the factory. Tube axles are all welded. I don't know why everybody freaks out about the process.
So in this figuring process,,, What's your over all Kp to Kp that you are shooting for? Where's that put the bones c/c ? What size spring will you need ? Where do you get custom springs economically ? I'm contemplating the same thing is why I ask
Just to add, I have a 46" wide SB axle on my coupe. I used it because I like short, narrow, tight little hotrods. I hate it. I want a real Model but I have to make it and I will.
I have a theory - But mark twain said it very simply and universally "It's not the things that you don't know that gets you into trouble - It's the things that you know for sure that just ain't so" Some folks can type and ***emble language but they have no idea on the subject they speak of. Internet regurgitation of misinformation is nothing more than an elaborate version of "monkey see monkey do" that requires sophisticated technology and an extensive network of electronics. The participants could just as easily educate them selfs, yet its apparently more fun for monkeys to fling **** at the gl***.
About 46 inch KP tp KP ....Speedway sells 26-31 inch 4 leaf springs for about 80 bucks so the actual axle width will be built around the spring so to speak. This is a very narrow vehicle with the frame rails only 26 inch apart. Powered by a V8 -60 I imagine total weight to be no more than 1500 pounds. The photos above tell the story,thanks
One thing I would consider before determining the width is the spring. Since custom built springs are a lot more money than standard width, I would see what's available cheap and try to make my cut to accept a standard spring if possible. If not there are spring shops that can custom build a spring for more money.
We have a local spring shop/black smith shop. He will make me a new main leaf any length, eye, ark, what ever and it is in the $50 range. He also prefers to just make a new one over reversing eyes.
Really? I would like to see one factory Ford Twin I Beam that is welded construction. The early ones were forged and the later ones were cast. Both cases all one piece. At least all the ones that I have ever seen - and I used to build an awful lot of off road race trucks with these. The twin Traction 4WD front ends were fabricated and welded, but they don't use the cast/forged type technology. Tube axles are a different animal as to how they are constructed. I don't think it is the fact that there are welds so much as folks not knowing HOW to weld that type of part (an I beam axle) that is designed to flex and twist. Done properly it is fine, Done poorly and it will be the first to the scene of the crash
A friend of mine had a T bucket with a snake back axle, didn't handle funny or anything but was wiggly looking down the top edge. I measured kingpin to perch bolt, went home, found a nice front end with a perfect axle, spent 4 hours getting apart without destroying the wishbone or axle bolts. Went back over dismantled the bucket's front end and the wishbones wouldn't hook up. THEN I laid the old axle up to the newone and found there were 4 inches missing. Then I redid all that work. I did s****e the paint away in the middle of that axle and there was a smooth spot all the way around at the midpoint, the paint was so rough it didn't show through. Did get $50 for the axle at the next swap meet though.
Brackets are welded on to rear axle housings and no one worry's about that and I doubt if the steel quality is as good as a Ford front axle..A good welder, good machine, good weld material and all is well..No one thinks twice about how an axle is dropped either? It [the axle] can tolerate being heated bent and stretched it can sure hold up with proper weld..Or so I say..
From a certified weldors (Yes people thats correct spelling) point just make sure you have a qualified person doing the welding Ive seen where people get their Eastwood wire welder & expect it to weld like my 350 Amp Miller Syncrowave keep in mind thats a pretty important piece of the car that you want to be safe
I think if you do the math you will find there isn't a lot of pressure on an axle at that point. I would guess it would go something like this.. A car that weighs 3000 pounds..1850 lbs. on front axle... divide by 2.. 925 lbs on each front wheel. Now that is at the wheel. Figure the end of the spring as the pivot point. From there to the wheel is about twice as far compaired to the center of the axle. That takes it down to about 500lbs or less at the center of the axle. Now someone has to chime in here with the strength (lbs/inch) of a weld. Most guys here would think nothing of welding something up to pick up a 500 lbs. item.
Keep in mind this is a bare bones tanker body with a rear engine. The front end weight will be 300-400 pounds at the most. It's not a daily driver or racer. Not going to a welding shop or a machinist, the cost of that would exceed buying a new tube axle ready to bolt in . I have access to a large 3 phase Miller....I feel comfortable with bolted fish plating and welding. Like fixing a cracked truck frame...
I may need some more info but oxy welding is around 3100-3600 deg. Other forms can be up to 6000. The heat affected zone would be larger. But the actual temp of the weld should be cooler right? And less likely to create a brittle area on what should be a flexible piece. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I don't see a problem welding on an axle if you prepare it like the photo that was posted on the first page. I personally would stick weld it with a low hydrogen electrode like 7018 and preheat/post heat.
Ok, after reading the suggestions here and staring at the axle I have a plan that suits my skills and the tools available. Section the piece from the center of the axle. Jig the axle and **** weld it together. Then box the center section about 8 inches on each side and weld. Considering the axle will carry half the weight of it's original use, this should be more than adequate and allow the axle to flex a bit on the ends..And the center will be concealed by the body shell ...
I saw a old midget axle where they cut off the ends back to the spring perches and drilled and reamed the perches for kingpins. Then welded on new spring perches. How fast do you plan to go?
Interesting but the axle ,a 47 , would loose about 2 inches of drop and require machine work. not to mention 40 inches is too narrow for this car.
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