I have a 61 Comet 144 3 speed column shift. I found a 77 mustang 302/ auto. I really want one with t5. Can I use the spindles/brakes, drive tran with rear end in it? I do fabrication so that's not to much of a problem. Looking for a quick cheap swap like this. Any advice? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
The '77 302 is a smog motor & would need some speed parts (compression & cam) to put out decent HP. Need to see what axle is in it, I'd guess an 8" where it has a C-4. A stick is a lot harder on the axle than an A/T. The '77 is a Mustang II that set a standard for front ends, don't know if the parts are a direct transfer, might do some measuring for a sub frame swap if not.
None of the ch***is parts from the Mustang will bolt onto that car - you should be able to find the parts necessary to bolt the 302 in it, but you will probably have to make a trans crossmember and also a driveshaft. Not sure, but the Comet may already have an 8" axle in it, it will just be a different length than the one in your Mustang.
With a 144 engine, the Comet will NOT have an 8" axle. The '77 Mustang II should have an 8" axle. However, the MMII 8" has a fairly light duty housing but it should be more than adequate for your Comet, since it already was paired with the 302 in the Mustang. You can use later 5 lug Falcon, Comet, '64/'70 Mustang, Cougar, Torino, Granada, Monarch and Versailles spindles, hubs & brakes on your a Comet.
It will have a 6-3/4" rear axle, which, if fed by any V8, will be immediately broken. I broke mine, with my hopped up 144, with a T5. V8 spindles are easy to find. I have purchased them for as little as $10/ea. One thing to note, early Falcons and Comets has a TINY ball joint set. They will not fit the later 6, or V8 spindles. These ran until about October 15, 1961. The easiest thing to do there is to buy complete control arms intended for a '65-'66 Mustang. Those are equipped with the correct balljoint, and save you all of the labor of rebuilding the originals. Google: Shelby Drop, and then do it. I have been wrenching on this particular ch***is since I was a kid. I came home from the hospital, shortly after my birth, in a '63 Falcon. So I have been into them since almost day-one. Keep the questions coming. I am happy to help guide you to good stuff. How's the weather in Long Beach?
Weathers always great here! Yeah I've heard something about the front suspension needed to be swapped completely. Just thinking of the cheapest way to get this thing a daily driver so I'm not looking for horse power. Gas cost to much to daily drive. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
So if I get a 65 mustang suspension off eBay new $300 the spindles and breaks should work from the 77 right? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
The 77 Mustang parts won't work, unless you are planning on cutting out the shock towers and then putting the entire 77 Mustang II front crossmember and suspension under your Comet. Nothing interchanges. Putting the 64-66 Mustang control arms, spindles etc will work BUT you also need the tie rods and the elusive part - a 63 1/2-65 Falcon/Comet V8 center Drag link - the Mustang one doesn't work (too wide) The T5 trans works with a bit of m***aging to the tunnel and a custom crossmember The 77 Mustang II 302 was also a weak **** - they were Under 140HP!!!!!
Hell, if you are looking for quick, cheap and fun all in the same package, I'd skip the V8 swap and head directly for a 200 inch six cylinder. They drop in, and with a couple of tweaks here and there are quite fun to bash around in. Gimpy's car is a pretty good template to follow with it's T5 conversion and disc brakes, Weber carb, electronic ignition and such. Yes, by all means do a Shelby drop, too. I guess my point is, to have fun with these cars you really DON'T have to completely change the undercarriage and go to a V8. When you do get one of these sixes running nicely, (see the Weber carb and electronic ignition comment above) whether you stick with the 144 for now or go up to the 200, they are a very nicely balanced package that in my mind gets a bit lost when a V8's extra weight is added. Just a thought.
Ok p*** on the 1000 buck mustang. Thanks. I have wanted the 200/t5 swap since I got it. I didn't realize my front on my 61 comet ****ed. I've heard early 90's late 80's ranger rear ends work for the width. Prob will need to weld new mounting brackets. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Start hitting your local Craigslist under '64-'70 Mustangs and see all the 200 inch sixes that have been pulled out of those cars because they "had" to have a V8. I bought one for my wagon a couple of years ago that was a brand new fresh rebuild for 200.00 dollars, added a Weber 32/36 and adaptor, a '68 and later exhaust manifold and 2" exhaust and a dura spark II electronic ignition out of a late seventies small six. I then had a car that would happily chirp the tires into second even with the ****py C/4 trans, and had zero problem keeping out ahead of modern traffic at all times. With a T-5 conversion, the far better gearing will give you a bottom end pull you won't believe, the closer gear ratios will keep the little thing in it's torque band all the way through, then the overdrive will allow you to cruise the freeways at modern speeds and turn back about 25-30 mpg. To help with the front end, the Shelby drop makes these things feel damn well "glued in". That floaty, vague, feeling so common with these cars goes away with about an afternoon's worth of no dollars spent work. I used a kit from Scarebird disc brakes and doubled my wagon's braking for lots less than it would have cost to go through the stock drums, and kept the stock four lug pattern. Yes, the Ranger rear end would be a good swap into the back of your car if you really need to swap the rear. If the stock stuff is okay for now, let that be the last thing you do. These little cars are really quite well engineered in their stock form. If I had even a solid 144, I'd consider keeping it. The biggest problems with these cars stock is the truly ****py ignition system Ford gave them initially, the near criminal lack of breathing ability, and the then standard lack of acceptable gearing for today's roads. Fix those three things and you have a really cool little cruiser that you can afford to feed and will occasionally surprise even some of the V8 stuff running around.
I agree, though the manual trans cars had a 3:10 rear gear stock, which is better than the 3:50 the automatics got. Yet, I still cruise at 70-75 mph on the Eisenhower...right with traffic. That six is buzzing, but it likes it. Cosmo
I have a 1991 Ranger 8.8 in mine, redrilled to 4-lug. It is 1/2" wider than stock. Plenty of room for tires. It has a big pumpkin, a big pinion flange, and an offset pinion. In addition to spring perches, you will need to remove the pinion snubber, modify the tunnel, floor, and rear seat frame to fit it. It is 5-on-4-1/2" native. I redrilled it, 'cause I'm a weirdo.
There's no such thing as a cheap V8 swap. You have to go all in, and finish the whole thing, before the car will be back on the road. I was able to complete the entire upgrade path of my '60 Falcon, we taking it all off the road for a maximum of 3 days, at-a-time. I could have done it even faster, but it wasn't a priority, and I was taking my time.
Ya, but I was looking at the O/Ps location, which just like mine is in the west. Here in Phoenix, or over in L.A. all the way down to San Diego going "just" 70-75 will put you in the right lane with the engine screaming, and with tons of inattentive traffic zombies barreling down on you at 80-85. I personally just can't be comfortable in that situation, so an overdrive is beyond imperative out in this neck of the woods. I think beyond that though, the most misunderstood thing about doing the T-5 deal on these cars is that it gives you a much more small engine friendly FIRST gear, and three other nicely spaced gears to keep everything on a boil as you run through them. If you have never done it. you can't possibly imagine the difference in seat of the pants acceleration feel you get when you ditch a ****py typical 50s/60/70s three speed or automatic for a well geared 5 speed like the T-5... Day and Night! Gearing is a mighty powerful thing!!! Edit: Sorry, I thought I saw he was from the L.A. area, but that must have been a different post from earlier today. I do however stand by my thoughts that these cars truly DO need a modern trans to be useful in todays traffic, and that it is honestly the biggest difference that can be made with these cars.
I guessed that he's in Long Beach, 'cause the picture of his car is on the side of Long Beach Harbor. It is right next to L.A. For those looking to do a full V8 steering swap: http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/V6-to-V8-Steering-Conversion-d19.htm The "rare" centerlink: http://www.falconparts.com/ford-falcon-auto-parts/pc/1965-V-8-MANUAL-STEERING-CENTER-LINK-17p769.htm Not so "rare" that you can't just buy it. If commuting and mileage is the goal, keep the 144. You can do the upgrades, step-by-step, as financing allows. I can even walk you through the complete T5 install. I run an S10 T5 in mine, with the 3.76 ge****t, which has a 0.72:1 overdrive (3.55:1 rear gear, stock was 3.56:1). I will be swapping this T5 for another like unit, retrofit with the 0.89:1 overdrive from the 4.03:1 T5 ge****t. The 0.72:1 overdrive is just a little too tall for the 144. Look at the iden***y plate on the driver's door. You will find the axle code on it, toward the right. Codes for 1961 are: 3: 3.10:1 4: 4.00:1 5: 3.20:1 J: 3.50:1 If you have the 3.10 or 3.20 rear gear, you might want the whole 4.03 S10 ge****t.
As for upgrades, do the DUI HEI distributor first (and plug wires). Plug the stock vacuum line on the carburetor, and hook it up to manifold vacuum, where the wipers are tapped into the manifold. The original is a crime against good automotive engineering. Just throw it away. You seriously will NOT BELIEVE the difference that JUST this makes! Then, do the Weber 32/36, on a cl***icinlines.com adapter. The stock carburetor and distributor are a linked system. You can't change the carburetor first. The stock carburetor is about 1/2 of what the engine really needs. The primary on the 32/36 is a tiny bit smaller than the only barrel on the stock one. The bonus is, it has a secondary, larger barrel. Imagine cruising at freeway speed, and then putting on a authoritative p***. Power when you need it, economy the rest of the time.
I'll prob do mustang t5 then put on a s10 tail. The front needs replacement on the 61 anyways. I'll need to find wheels and tires. What rear ends fit that car for 5 lug? The rear seems to be the hardest part to find to do cheap. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Stock is 56" wide. The choices are limited. First Rancho 9". Maverick, I think. '90-'92 Ranger 7.5 or 8.8. Check out the ratios on the Mustang T5's. They are oriented toward V8 horsepower and torque, which you do not have, with the 144. Trust me. I drive a hopped-up 144, with an S10 T5, daily. Chip has been tweaking the sixes a bunch, too. He can verify. I have all of the spreadsheets with gears, tire size, RPM, and speed, all done up. Early Econoline-6 bell, Offenhauser adapter, S10 T5.
Come to think of it, the 1983-1992 Ranger 7.5 is plenty strong enough for the six. It's ring gear is 1" smaller, but the axles are the same. The pumpkin is smaller than the 8.8, so it is easier to fit in. The pinion flange is smaller, too (p***enger car size, like T-Bird/Mustang), but still uses the same joint (****er 1310). Axle info: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/Explorer8_8.shtml It still has a 2" offset pinion, so it may take a little floor re-work, size depending on the driveshaft diameter. I slit the top of my tunnel and sliced 3-1/2" out of the floor, about 20" to the right, slid the piece over, and welded in a 3-1/2" strip in the gap, making a new tunnel top. I started just behind the body brace/trans crossmember, and went all the way to the trunk riser. I had to modify the seat frame, using the same scheme, but then it went right back in.
Yeah I'm really enjoying all the useful info. My front end needs some tlc so I'm pricing eBay/craigslist for the front end swap. Is the 61 Comet steering links all smaller like the ball joints? Also what kind of top speeds do the inlines get on the s-10 trans. My drive to work is 80 mph in the slow lane 7 miles. My drive from long beach to LA is 1 hour for 15 miles. Needs to drive and stop fast because drivers here are horrible and traffic finds old cars weak spots. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I'll prob use the ranger rear end because availability and price. Light fab for me is no problem. I'm luck my best friends own IMG Motorsports. Look them up for UTV racing. I want a 200/t5. But we'll see what deals I find when that time comes around. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
If you are staying with a 6, there is no reason to upgrade the steering stuff to V8 parts. 5-lug will get you more wheel choices, but that can be done on 6-spindles. Here is what I would do: Obtain a pair of '62-'66 6-spindles. They can be had, for about $20. These are functionally identical to your current spindles, except they accept the late '61-on, larger, more common ball joints (6 and 8), but still attach to the 6 tie rod ends. No steering component changes. With those, you can buy all of your suspension parts from the 65-66 Mustang parts bins, and install them, with some minor mods. The spacing on the bolts that hold the radius rods to the lower control arms is a little different. A little die grinder work makes them fit. Instead of trying to find V8 spindles, or suspect Granada setups, you can put 5-lug disc brakes on the 6-spindles. Scarebird brakes makes a 4-to-5 brake conversion. It uses common parts, that can be sourced locally. He makes super-high-quality stuff, that fits perfectly. My daily runs a Scarebird setup, and I have installed many more for customers. Everyone is happy. With that setup, and a 1" Maverick dual circuit master cylinder, you will have confident, modern braking, and 5-lugs: https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65&product_id=126 With that setup, and the rear, you're all 5-lug. Additionally, you could install that front brake setup, with your stock master cylinder, on the original spindles, before you do anything else, and get the brakes right away, and just move them over, as you upgrade the other parts. That way, you can build it one piece at-a-time. You would, of course, have to source some 5-lug wheels to run on the front. My 144, with the T5 (0.72:1 OD), 3.55:1 rear gears, and 24-inch tires, can hold 80, plus a little more, with the aforementioned mods.
I have maverick disk set up and a 68 falcon 5 lug drum setup for sale if interested. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
That's exactly why I am such a believer in the T-5 deal! It will be no problem with the T-5 and a fairly standard rear axle ratio. Plus, you'll find out very quickly that with the stock trans you have been starting out in "second gear" because the first gear in the T-5 is so much deeper, and second gear is roughly what is first in the stocker. It makes getting these cars out of the hole a bunch more fun all the way around, too. I firmly hate new cars, and the pile of trash new Honda my girlfriend dragged home a year ago truly is a steaming pile that aggravates me just by sitting there. But I do have to say this about it. For nearly 4000 car with an automatic and 140 HP it goes allot quicker than it has a right to. In checking it gear ratios, I find them to be fairly close to what a 4cylinder S-10 T-5 has hidden in it's case. The advances made with transmissions and gearing in the last three decades are nothing short of incredible. I would certainly go with the S-10 T-5 and Econoline bell that Gimpy was talking about earlier.
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