GASSER MUST HAVES and cant haves?

Quain, This one was fiberglass. First hit the track in early 1967 as an NHRA legal AA/GS. Owned by Chuck Stolze (S&S Parts Co.) and campaigned by K.S. Pittman for the 1967 season. It may have been built by Cal Automotive, but I am not sure about that. If it is important I can find out.

 

There were as many different qualities of builds as there were builders. There were amatuers and professional builders. Different qualities of builds in both. So, no, you can't justify shoddy work by saying most of the builds were rough. Sure you can pick and choose rough builds, seems to be pretty prevelent on here sometimes.

As far as fiberglass bodies go, add Anglias and Austins to the list.

 

I'm sure a lot of the earlier stuff was gas welded too,but I agree;that doesn't justify scabby workmanship.

I think the range of quality was probably pretty wide,but most of the average guys back then building cars didn't really have access to the excellent affordable equipment that the average guy has available to him today.
Also,the average guy seems to have a higher level of training today than the average kid wanting to build a hot coupe back in the late 50's early 60's.
I guess a huge exception to that would be California guys,with dozens of race car fab shops,aerospace surplus parts,materials,and training,etc.

I just wish I could have been around for all of it.

Scott


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I don't really know about the better training now than then. I don't know of any high schools that didn't have shop classes back then. We spent an entire year in welding lab. Were we pros -- no, but a lot of the stuff I see now days would have gotten failing grades back then. Believe me, there are guys out there that can lay down a weld with a crackerbox that will be as stout and good looking as you could ask for.

 

I don't really know about the better training now than then. I don't know of any high schools that didn't have shop classes back then. We spent an entire year in welding lab. Were we pros -- no, but a lot of the stuff I see now days would have gotten failing grades back then. Believe me, there are guys out there that can lay down a weld with a crackerbox that will be as stout and good looking as you could ask for.[/QUOTE]

I agree, it is not the equipment, it is the person running it....My father, father in law could run a stick like nothing else... Both these men were self taught....My 21 year old son actually prefers stick welding (certified to 6G) to mig....

Booger welds on cars back the, as now, really don't have much to do with the welding box.... I've also seen some horrible work over the years on cars, usually in the steering areas that were modified...


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You guys were missing my point:
Sure there were highschool shop classes back then,but not every guy that walked out of one of those was a "welder",just as not every guy who buys a flux core mug machine at Costco is a "welder" these days.

The flip side of this,and what I was referring to;is that it is very easy to not only walk into a retail store or welding supply outlet and walk out with a MIG,TIG,or stick machine capable of producing professional level results,but getting information and training on how to use this equipment is easier than it has ever been,thanks to night classes at community colleges,dvd's,websites,YouTube,and the popularity of this level of equipment at a local level.

All I'm saying is,it's really easy to get good equipment that wasn't commonly available in 1960 to the average guy,and if you're a shitty welder,then you have nobody to blame but yourself,because there is no shortage of resources to assist in raising your proficiency level.

When was the last time you heard of a guy looking for a coat hanger so he could weld up his frame...?

Scott


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just because you have access to equipment doesn't determine the results training and practice help and some will still screw it up.

 

The steel '33 Willys was destroyed in a crash in '65 where KS ran out of shutdown room. He returned to the '41 Willys for the rest of '65-'66, and then unveiled the fiberglass '33 Willys in '67, which was a Chuck Finders built tube chassis, and a Zuechel built Hemi. This was the last car the S&S team ran when they folded a year or so later and was the only car left when they quit.

 

Thank's oldracer this kind if info is hard to come by. I was told that the 41 and 33 willys was available around 67. The reason I ask is that we have it in our rules that the only fiberglass body that is legal in our deal is the ones that were available in the 60s. Now I have a guy that is wanting to build an Anglia and I'm not sure that you could get an Anglia then. They are plenty of steel Anglia's around for about $3000. We don't want our deal to turn into all glass body's down the road. If the 41 and 33 wasn't so hard to find and expensive we would not let them in but they are. I hope this is not high jacking the thread if so PM me the info. Thank's Quain

 

Quain,
That's definitely not a hijack,as Im sure many guys have wondered that about the glass bodies as well.
67 was a definite turning point for the class,with more modern cars like Ohio George's first M-car working its way in,but I was always curious about the gray area of glass bodies for the older,more traditional body styles like te 33's and 41's you mentioned.
This is all good,relevant info to this thread.

Scott

Ps:Great job on the new paint!


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Thank's Scott, I guess the question does fit the thread. Yea the paint job is growing on me I'm liking it, I just hated to have to change the name but it won't be long before everybody will know who the Grand Illusion is.

 

These two are fiberglass. But I think the Anglia might have been built in 1970.

 

By 1966 or 1967 many old gasser coupe bodies consisted mostly of fiberglass replacement parts anyway. As rare and expensive as old steel bodies are these days, duplicate fiberglass bodies seem a reasonable and sensible alternative and should be allowed IMHO. Here is a reconstruction picture of Gene Cromer's Willys showing that only about 20% of the original steel body is actually still present.

--- Steve ---

 

Hey Quain. Your Willys looks great. Here is the pic for those who missed it (like me) with the new paint.

 

Better make room for more glass bodies beyond the '33 and your '41. Mel Marrs and Phil Lukens built a fiberglass bodied Anglia in the late 60's with a Jim Kirby chassis, and Contemporary Fiberglass body. Herrera Bros Austin was a flip top complete glass body also in the late 60's. Mike Steinberg also ran a full glass body Austin built by Contemporaray Fiberglass in the late 60's. Most of the complete fiberglass bodies made in the late 60's were done by three companies; Competition Fiberglass, Contemporary Fiberglass, or B&N Fiberglass.

 

I've seen a LOT of restored and/or rebuilt gassers over the years. A lot of guys will recreate the particular components with modern materials and build methods, while maintaining the look of the originals. For instance, ladder bars are a good example. I've seen cars with home-made ladder bars that are "obviously" period correct and original to the car, except they're actually made with moly or mild steel tubing instead of black pipe, and they're TIG or MIG welded instead of arc-welded with bubble-gum welds, and they have adjustable heim joints or are bushed at one end rather than solid-mounted. But if you were to hold up a picture of the car from when it was new, and look at the same car today, you couldn't see the difference.

Back in the old days, torches were easy to come by... air tools and cut-off wheels weren't. Mopars in the '70s are famous for having torched holes in the inner fenders for header clearance--today, nobody would do that.
When I worked for Mopar Muscle, we did a story on an original Grand Spalding '71 Dodge Demon that came from Grand Spalding with a supercharged 340... It was a round supercharger with the carb in a box. The air intake hose for the supercharger went through the core support, and it was cut with a torch... apparently an affordable 4-inch hole saw had not been invented yet!

There's no reason in the world to recreate, or even preserve, crappy workmanship.
-Brad

 

Ah yes .. Ladder bars ... I have two original sets. One has tie rods stick welded to the ends for some movement. And another set was just bolded into rough cut plates welded to the frame. I kept them as is for the right period look. All good responses to the post. Perhaps in summary, Some had skills, some not. Some had money and access to better technology in the day, others did not, so there would be a mix of quality perhaps just like today.

I forgot to mention one car I saw had an old fiberglass seat from a high school cafe bolted to the floor for the driver with a old wwii plane seat belt. Again some wild inexpensive, lightweight and questionable safety things out there used back in the day.

 

fact is race shops did quality work all over the country as good as or better than what was done on the coast ---shops did good work because they had equipment for all phases of construction---team cars were only as good as their resource pool,grinder ,stick welder, torch, air compressor and no way in hell a lift---we ran a 471 with a chain drive came off a car that won class at the okie city nats also had quarter eliptics and a great paint job---ate cast pistons weekly---also military surplus was everywhere i was runnung surplus fittings on my vette that were local purchase in the early 60's

 

In 60' when I started building my car there were 3 pro builders here in so-cal- Dragmaster - Scotty Fenn and Kent Fuller building dragsters not gassers

If you wanted a gasser you built it yourself and you did not just walk in and buy a TIg or Mig welder, it took me some time to buy my tools so I could build my own

At 2 bucks an hour it ain't over nite for buying a gas welding set- stick welder- floor jack etc and a box full of hand tools, with out that you just set there and look at it

That's 500 bucks before you start buying your car parts

My auto shop did not teach welding , just how to rebuild your carb and put in points

Most of the cars built I the late 50's and early 60' were very rough under the paint as mine was too

You guys are spoiled today seeing all the modern metal working stuff, it was not like that 55 yrs ago believe me

You can only do so much in the way of being sano with a cutting torch, like they say ' been there done that '

G Don

 

Don, my first welder was an old flathead four powered 300 amp welder/generator that I bought from a local logging company that was going out of business. It was nice having a portable with it's own trailer, as I could haul it to my buddy's places and help them with their cars. But even at 25 cents a gallon for the gas to feed it, it still hurt when you're making $1.75 an hour. So I started charging my buddies a little to help pay for gas and welding rod.
I sure got tired of hearing that old engine run the entire time I was welding with it though! Eventually sold it to a friend and bought a used Lincoln welder that I really liked because it was so quiet.

 

As with anything, there were high quality and there was junk. My car was built at Blair's starting in late 68, but it was Not high dollar particularly. Jay worked a deal with Don Blair (this was before Phil Lukens bought the place from Don, but he did work there) to use the shop to build the car. Jay was (is) a talented guy and this car was TIG welded as nicely as anything built today. you won't find any black pipe, stick welds or torch cut parts on it. He was quite meticulous and took his time as did most of the guys in the shop at that time - like Pete Eastwood, Mike Hoge and Eric Vaughn. Even the paint was very nice quality. It is also why it has stood the test of time without having to have most of the car replaced like half the junk out there! I was worried when I was redoing it that I was over doing things, and P-Wood told me "NO, Jay's stuff was as nice as it comes!"

As for Fiberglas Bodies - The other Blair's car posted by Larry was made from a mold pulled from my car. This car was a virgin stocker when Jay started on it and they pulled a mold off it, then chopped the first one and made a second mold. This would have been during 68-69 and is believed to have been the First Fiberglass full body for Anglia's. Most of the glass chopped Anglia's you saw from then til at least the mid 70's were from this mold.

 

Are you referring to the steel '33 that the Spar bros. of B&M transmissions paid for & had built for KS?. If so, here is the story from Dick Gazan, who was part of Hugh Tucker's blown street roadster. Tucker and Gazan toured a fair amount with KS, Stone Woods & Cook, etc. A bunch of them had gone to a race at Half Moon Bay, here in Ca. As many did back then, KS also had his own sneaky way of weighing in "legal", and racing "light". He had an extra pair of rear wheels/slicks full of water for weigh in, then they'd go back, and put the "air only" race tires/wheels on. This particular day, KS got distracted, and only changed one rear tire. The first qualifying pass the car was all over the place as you can imagine. Tucker had already made a run, and he and Gazan were in the shut down/turn out area picking up the chute etc. KS peddled it all the way down the track, but never fully lifted and shut it down. After he passed the finish line, Gazan said KS kept beating throttle trying to get it figured/straightened out. The only thing you could crash into was a big ass boulder a ways off the left lane, in the shut down area. Well KS kept beating the throttle, and totaled the Willys into the boulder! Gazan said, "KS what the hell were ya doing"?, KS said "trying to figure out Shazam"! Dick said they stripped the Willys of anything worth saving right there on the boulder. They figured out what had happened when they took the right rear wheel/tire off (the left side was junk),and nearly threw their backs out! That pretty much ended KS driving for the Spars, and I believe that the car was pretty new when this happened.

 

As I recall my new Lincoln buzz box was 125 and the Linde gas set was 100 bucks

That was plenty back then plus the extra's - helmet - chipping hammer - rod - welding tanks - goggles and a bench grinder to grind off the slag

Don

The quality of fab shop's really impoved a ton from 61' to 68' when Blairs built your car

 

I love the look. Anyone know where to get the grill insert material?

 

The "real deal" is to make one from a 58 Ford grill, like Quain, and Gene Cromer's car to name two. You can by similar "expanded" metal/Aluminum from a metal supply house, However, the 58 Ford grill inserts have a texture to them, that expanded material does not. If your going for a hard core period piece, gotta have 58 Ford grill material. Wonder who wad the first to use it in a car other than a 58 Ford?
PS. The Ford grill is flat, so to do a really nice job like Quain, he used an "English Wheel" to curve his to fit the shape of the Willys nose piece.

 

Is there something in front of the Ford grill to keep the air out? The reflexion makes it look like something clear there.

 

No Larry it's open, the moon tank is right behind it that might be what makes it look that way.

 

Thank's for all the info on the fiberglass Anglia body from everyone, Looks like I'm going to let him run it.

 

In the 60's My friend's parents house looked like A used car lot in the summer, his Dad was the only one with a welder and cutting torch. an old Hobart that must have weighed 600 pounds,worked in the gravel under a dripping elm tree. Chris

 

Duh, I see that now. I guess I can't see the forest for the trees this morning, need more coffee.

Thanks Quain.