Technical Oil from the breather

Hello everyone,

So on the 330 mile drive back from picking up my "new to me" 59 Thunderbird from Duluth, MN yesterday, the car was pushing about a quart of oil out of the breather every 75 miles or so. I have owned many pre-70 cars in my young life and have never had any problems like this on any of the other ones driving at speed (70 mph sustained highway).

Any ideas about why? Any simple fixes?

Couple things to note:
1. Engine (352 FE) was rebuilt in 2007 and has less than 7000 miles on the rebuild. (I have the reciept). This car still has the road draft tube set up.

2. The breather appears to be a cheap chrome "hot rod" part. So I am wondering if the original had a baffle before the filter to keep the oil in?

3. I know it was coming from the breather because the valve cover and fire wall on that side were covered in oil.

Any and all thoughts and opinions welcome. Except the ones from the old guys that are just going to tell me not to drive that fast. Because that is just not an option

Mike

 

For those of you that like pictures like you like candy... here you go:

 

Sorry to hear you are having problems; I'm sure it stings even worse since this is a new purchase. There's a lot of gurus here, hopefully they can point you in the right direction and this issue will get resolved.

Can you post some photos of the engine? Let's see how the pcv valve is routed and your breather.

Also, there is an FE Forum and these guys are allllll FE. They know the FE's very well.
http://fefordtech.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=2ch38ra1ui3uf4dl551la9bh51&board=2.0

I really wish I could offer you more insight. Chasing down this problem can be frustrating. Hopefully it's something simple and not someting big like a cracked head.
I want to see your car at Back To The 50's!

I experienced the same problem with a SBC a few years ago (oil blowing out the breather. Reminds me of your situation....oil all over my fire wall and running down my windshield) You don't want to know what I had to do

 

Possible broken ring?

 

Man, a quart every 75 miles is a lot of oil! It sounds like you have a lot of crankcase pressure to push that much oil out. Is your road draft tube clear?

Not that familiar with Fords but I'm thinking you might want to consider installing a PCV system and get a breather that is baffled better. Where is the breather, on a valve cover or elsewhere?

 

Good question. i have seen way to many cars where they install aftermarket valve covers and the next thing the guy knows is that the car is pushing oil out the breather. Remember air in and air out.
Jay

 

Nice car Mike.

 

How about a photo of the engine?

Does it have a PVC valve? HRP

 

Bad rings. Engine compression is getting past the rings and pressurizing the crankcase pushing oil out the breather. If the motor was freshly rebuilt awhile ago it might mean replacement rings never seated properly. In any event you're going to half to tear the motor down.

 

Beautiful car Wisconsin. You said in your post it still has a road draft tube. First thing is, check to see if it is plugged. A mouse nest inside, or an incorrect install for the tube will make for only one means of breathing for the motor.
Two, maybe it was just not broken in at the RPMs required for 70. Change oil, and treat it like a new car for a while. Run it at 50 and see if it blows by. Run it at 60, then 65, then 70, then 75. You have now broken in the engine to where it should no longer blow by. When you change oil, be sure to use something with zinc for your flat tappet cam. Anything that says 10/40, 15/40, meant for a diesel, will work fine.

 

X2 on this response. Reproduce the factory crankcase vent system with factory parts in the factory locations and be sure it's venting as intended by the manufacturer before you start thinking of taking more drastic measures.

As a general rule, do the simple, cheap stuff first. Then and only then move on to the more complex and expensive.

 

All the cars we dealt with that had a Y-block or early FE, we would usually install a modern PCV valve in the valley pan or valve cover. Problem solved!

 

One where the puke tube is now, or cap that off & put one on the other valve cover, or bob the tube & stick a grommet & PCV valve on the end of the shortened tube.. Might check to see if the breather has a filter to keep **** out of the engine.

 

I would say bad or broken rings. Too much compression is byp***ing the rings and pressurizing the crankcase.

 

Breather on one side and a PVC routed back to the carb or air filter canister, on the other side. In my experiences, that's usually worked the best. My new engine had it bad. My engine guy said it was probably due to the higher compression. So, I added a second breather that attaches to the side of the valve covers. Looks awkward/kinda cool as hell, solved my problem. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do that, but it may give you something to think about.

 

Could be an intake gasket also.seen them leak into the intake valley and cause excessive crankcase preasure.real common especially since fe motors don't have the best intake seal in the world

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YOu want a oil with a SJ or CI-4 rating . no SL or CJ ratings

the newer diesel oils are also going low zinc because of the soot filters .. Just to let you know and they are lower than the car oils in zinc and sulfur content .

 

I bought a pick up truck that basically had the same problem but was a PCV set up . they PO removed the baffle from the valve cover and the rocker was spraying oil right into the breather and the end was flipping it up also , I put a tin baffle across the breather inlet hole and problem was solved , I was suprised how much oil that little pushrod hole can puke when it was running at 2000 rpm .

I would check the draft tube first and a simple hand over the breather port will tell you if the set up is clogged as it will build pressure quickly if it is or you have a bad ring seal . ( they do make a flow gauge to check to see if the pressure is right

 

You can tell if an engine's getting blowby just by smelling it when it idles. It smells different than a rich mix.

What you smell will be exhaust gas+hot oil at the valve cover breather, not just the normal hot oil vapor.

Now a hopped up engine needs extra high outlets on the breather, because of air pumping in the crankcase more violently. A Pcv hose to the top of the air filter is a good option too, and nothing says you can't have one for each tin cover on the engine if you like.

A stock valve cover often has a metal baffle inside that deflects oil from spraying right on the underside of the breather. It's easy to make one if yours doesn't.

Of course do a compression balance test + leakdown test, first dry, then wet with a s**** of oil, if you suspect bad rings. If it leaks down fast dry, but slow wet, the rings are normally shot. If it leaks down fast wet or dry, then the valves don't seal.

If this engine was rebuilt 7 years ago, then sat in Minnesota without being run in the winters, it may not ever have broken in properly, but more likely has had rust in the cylinders which had the open valves. If the owner started it up for 5 minutes a month to charge the battery, then there could be rust in every cylinder, which has caused loose rings and blowby.

Same thing happens to the valve guides as well.

But go smell it first, when it's fully warmed up, and if you smell exhaust in the valve cover hole, suspect ring/guide damage, and do the leakdown.

EDIT: IT TOOK SO LONG TO TYPE THAT THAT STIMPY ACED ME

ooooh sorry...

BTW, If you want to feel blowby pressure with the hand, all other breathers/tubes must be plugged first.

 

Actually you need to avoid SM & SN oil, & CJ.

 

I would do a compression test. That should tell you if you are getting blow-by or not.

 

The easiest and cheapest thing to do is change the breather. NAPA should carry them. IIRC, the ones on my old 352-390 Fords had a baffle built into it. The aftermarket one probably has nothing in it.

Bob

 

OK. Sorry for not replying yesterday. Update: I think I have bigger issues than the breather. There is still a bit coming out from it, but I am still losing large amounts of oil in very short miles.

I think the breather issue may have been caused by gunk in the oil returns in the lifter valley that may have cleared itself.

So, I don't see any blue smoke at idle or at cold start. It is hard to tell if there is blue smoke when driving so I don't know for sure if it is bad rings. There was a TON of carbon in the engine because for the first few test runs yesterday I got a HEAVY amount of black carbon out the tailpipes at start up and when I would gun it. But that all seemed to go away by the end of the day.

I don't see any leaks or drips except a couple very small drips from the road draft tube and from the front of the engine where the breather leak covered the front of the block.

By the way, the breather is at the top of the oil fill tube on the front of the intake. The road draft tube is clear of any junk and I can see that the crankcase gas is exiting from it nicely.

I have the day off today. Looks like in addition to sitting at the DMV, I will get to teach myself how to do a compression test.

 

After reading your last post my guess would be that you are suffering from a motor that's just being woken up after a long slumber. Everything including the rings and the carburetor are gummy from sitting for a long while. After replacing the non-stock parts (breather, etc.) with OEM parts, I'd suspect that a carburetor rebuild, frequent oil changes and a lot of driving will gradually clear up your problems.

 

Anyone got a link to the Marvel Mystery Oil thread? I'd give that a try, run a pint or so in with the oil, drive it around town for a few days and change the oil. It may be worth a peek under the valve covers to get a general idea of what it looks like inside.

I do the free or almost-free stuff first. A set of valve cover gaskets, a can of MMO and a breather is a good start.

I've run the most clapped-out FE motors in the past, but never saw one that barfed raw oil out the breather like this one. I feel the cure may be relatively simple.

Bob

 

There's plenty of things you can check before you pull it down and re-ring it.

Checking compression and manifold vacuun would be a good place to start.

Post a few pics of the top of the engine showing any breathers, vents, draft tubes, vacuum hoses and PVC valve, if so equipped.

An incorrect PCV valve or an unbaffled aftermarket valve cover could be enough to cause the problems you're describing.

 

Changing breathers wont help much if the valve covers aren't baffled. I'd either modify them to add a baffle, or if that's not feasible I'd get some that have baffles. I'd also add a PCV valve as mentioned. These two changes should stop your oil blowby issues.

 

You can't see my PCV valve in this picture but I cut off the road draft breather tube in the back and welded on a hose connection and used an inline PCV valve. Connected to the base of the carb. Air in through the oil fill tube down into the motor and out through the PCV valve carrying fumes and water vapor with it. I like the early valve covers w/out the breathers. I made a baffle out of a copper pot scrubber at the grocery store.

 

This is a shot of the engine for those that asked.

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it is normal for road draft breathers to show wisps of smoke while idling and the the road draft system is not operating...no road draft. The amount of oil used is not normal. Check the compression before you go too far. I'd start by making sure the road draft tube is not plugged or broken. If the tube is cracked or broken it will not function as designed. Sorta like a straw with a hole in it....no suction no workie.