I'm currently working on restoring my old Volvo. Started poking around at the rust bubbles to see how bad the damage is. Doing this I've found some interesting stuff. The car is full of bondo that covers lots of nice dents & damage. So.. I need to buy a new sander to make life easier. What type works best for stripping paint without warping the metal? I'm thinking 6" DA. What brand do you guys suggest? What grit paper should I use to remove the paint? bondo? To get the majority of the bondo off can I torch it? I've heard people use those small propane bottles for this. Thanks Rob
I use a 6 inch DA, usually start with 80, then go over it with 180. If you are doing the whole car I would definitely spend the couple hundred bucks and get it sand blasted! Thats what I just did with my 49. I spend 80 bucks and go the entire car done, you will spend more than that in sandpaper. Just food for thought.
The *best* thing I've found for stripping paint is an air buffer, with a sponge pad & 80 grit. That is unless the old paint just gums up the paper (laquer does that), then I usually use chemicals. You'll need a grinder too, & a DA to finish sand. Now, if you get a *true* DA (dual Action), you can lock it down & use it to strip with. But as someone else suggested, it would be much better to get it *media* blasted. You're going to spend weeks in your spare time just stripping the car & grinding out the old bondo & such. Also, be prepared to cut out the rusted metal & weld in new shtuff. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Bush was on a tour of the east; visiting American jobs...(my best friend's included).
Cool. I know blasting is the best. Only problem with it is you can't leave the car in bare metal for any length of time. I dont think I could get the rust repair done quick enough. My goal for now is to find out how screwed up the previous owner's resto job really is & see where I need replacement panels. The panels alone are going to cost atleast $2k, more if I have to buy some of the hard to find pieces directly from Volvo (I read quotes of $800 per panel). Unfortunatly these cars are kinda rare & they all seem to rust in the same places. Besides I need a proper sander anyways. I've been using an old vibrating thing that ****s! So should I get a cheap one from harbor freight/northern tool? Any brands to stay away from. I know 3m makes good pads. Thanks Guys Rob
sanding / grinding will also warp the panels. best way would be use cemical stripper and do one panel at a time if you are worried about them rusting.
If you use the 80 grit on an air buffer or DA it won't warp the metal unless you do something crazy like stay in one spot & lean on it. To keep it from rusting, epoxy prime it as soon as you get it ready. You can apply bondo over the epoxy: do a search for this topic & you'll find lotsa good info. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Since I gave up hope I feel much better.
Unless this the only car you will ever do don't cheap out you can get an Ingersol Rand d/a for under 60 bucks.
once its blasted, seal and prime. it is alot easier to go back and sand one layer of new primer, then reshoot the whole thing. you can always repair the rust in small pieces and rattle can prime the repair when done, besides, you have to reprep after doing bodywork anyhow to remove all the grinding, sanding **** out of the surrounding arreas. BTW, where does one go to get a car blasted for 80 bones?
Here's my opinion..... if it's a car that you don't have a love affair for or a job for a paying customer that you're not all that fond of, then I say go ahead and blast it or rip the paint/ bondo off with a DA. But if you care about the car, there's no shortcut. Paint can come off with chemical strippers, even multiple coats. The only safe way I"ve found for stripping old bondo and at the same time prepping the metal for new bodywork is to use a strip-it disc, like Ken Sakamoto sells at Sunchaser tools. He's the guru of the shrinking disc. The strip it discs are slow but they don't heat the metal, work harden it or reduce it's thickness. While you're at it, investigate the shrinking disc and proper hammer and dolly techniques as Sakamoto teaches... I learned a lot from a two video set.
Hey, This may sound like heresy, but i'd suggest ya buy yourself a good 7'' or 9'' electric grinder. If ya have a large two stage compressor, some of the air grinders arn't a bad way to go either. Get your hands on some s**** fenders or hoods, and teach yourself how to use this tool correctly. I've seen more panels murdered with a grinder than I care to remember! If this project has a bunch of rot and mud in it , i'd start out with a 24 grit open coat disc. Watch those jagged edges and reverse crowns. You can use a DA in the tight corners and for clean up, but the grinder will save ya a bunch of time. DO NOT USE A DULL DISC ON FLAT OR LOW CROWN PANELS. Clean up the 24 grit p***es with a 60 grit closed coat disc. The flap wheels that are available for the smaller gringers are great for clean up , but the larger and more powerful grinders will save ya a **** load of time and paper discs if used correctly. And.....buy a good face shield, eye patches look cool on pirates, but really stupid on hot rodders.
Now THAT'S a good way to warp & generally mess up some good sheetmetal! Do NOT use a grinder & 24 grit to strip an entire car! It's fine to grind out bondo, in places that will be filled again or new metal welded in. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" It's been so long since I've had ***, I can't remember who gets tied up.
I stripped a 19 ft 62 ford galaxie with those 3m stripp discs.I used only 4 discs and they were the double ones.They leave the bare metal surface in an 80 grit scratch pattern.Apply epoxy primer over the 80 grit dont go to 180.The new epoxies like 80 grit then you can put 2k over the epoxy then sand 180-320 etc.mike
The best way to strip an entire car to bare metal, is with a large commercial sandblaster. I have one and did quite a few cars for side money at one time. One of those machines will strips an entire car in one afternoon, with time left to prime the car. Tape off the windows with duct tape and cardboard first- and remove all the trim. At the end, shut off the sand flow, and use the high volume air hose from the blaster to remove any excess sand. Bondo areas- use a grinder to grind off the bondo, if the blaster won't take it off quickly. The whole car should then be painted with self etching primer. Let it sit one week, lightly scuff it, then prime again with epoxy primer. You now have a bulletproof undercoat. Areas that need to be bodyworked can be ground to bare metal piecemeal then, to do dent/bondo/rust repair. But this system gets the rust off and car in primer, so no further rust can take place- as these cars usually sit a while before being finished.
Another great way to warp the hell outta' sheet metal. You might get away with it on 50's cars, but on an "old Volvo" I'm not so sure... ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Easy on the Giggle Cream!
What I would recomend is that you find somenoe in your town that will sandblast it for you. The sandblasting wont take off the bondo but you can use a heat gunn for that like the ones you use for heat shrink use that and a metal putty knife to s****e it off if you use the propaine tourch you chance warping the metal.
Ha-ha-ha! The beauty of the HAMB, ask a question, get a million different opinions! But since we're giving them,,,,, If anyone came near my ride with 24 grit I'd shoot them. Strip wood floors with it. Sand blasting is cool, I had my 41 Chevy done inside and out. Cost $210. and that was a friend doing it. Did prime it that same day with etching primer and, as stated, body putty will go right over it. 15 years later and I still have sand find it's way out of places... A 41 Chevy is made of some stout steel. I see you left out what year the VOLVO is which teels me a couple things. It is most likely thinner than the American steel and you are a quick learner about taking a HAMB beating. Another thing with blasting and Bondo. Don't watch or you will **** your drawers! Nothing like watching half a quarter panel disappear before your eyes. I'm getting ready to do some major panel work on a 59 El Camino and I will be using a combo of stripper and strip disks. doing one panel at a time. YOu can use the chemical and then run over with the strip disk to get what's left. Just be sure the stripper is neutralized before you try painting anything else on there. Usually, I try to keep the chemical away from seams for this reason and then knock those areas with the disks. Did that make sense?
what driver said beware of sandblasting you can really screw up sheet metal with it if you don't know what you'r doing.
I had a car that I worked on a while back that some pos flushed the door handles with about a inch of bondo. The bondo was cracking and I started sanding it to see what was up and there was no metal work just all bondo. That was on the first handle and I had all 4 to do. So I used the propane torch method and it work really good. You dont put to much heat to the sheet metal you just warm up the bondo and s****e the mud out with a putty knife. I would suggest it for overly thick improperly applied mud. Just my 2 cents CBB
Just went through this a while back. Had the car "media" (wallnut shell) blasted, won't do that again. The body required many extra hours of prep to get it back to a paintable surface. I had to strip everything out of and off it, trying to get at all the wallnut shells. Think I burned up 2 full days vacuuming out every cavity and wiping down every surface in a vain attempt to rid it of all the residual garbage. Next time I'll grind out any excess mud I find, and have it soda blasted. The soda leaves the surface smooth and the metal won't rust until you wash it with vinegar. The guy I found locally uses fertilizer to remove the rust and the soda to remove everything else. Cleaning afterward consists of washing out the soda and/or fertilizer residue. Watched a 67 Mustang being done, sure works slick.
Thanks for the advice! I'll admit I didn't think of this. I'll start searching for a place that has experience sandblasting cars locally. Rob
I'll throw in my .02 I think sandblasting isn't worth it, I'd be afraid of warping it, especially if your doing a whole car. Chemical stripper works well if you get the good stuff, it's probably your best bet. Slop it on a panel at a time, go get a cup of coffee, and go back with a putty knife and start s****ing it off. It will also start to eat at the body filler. My other option would be to use 3m discs. You'll go through sandpaper like toilet paper if your doing the whole car. 3m has stripper discs that are a good and tough and should last a while. They also sell poly discs with all these little ***s on them that work good too. Either type should dig out the old bondo.
If you sand blast the car you WILL warp the **** out of it. The guys that are saying to blast it have cars made with real steel but a later model car will not be worth painting after sand blasting it. I worked in a body shop for years and fixed a few cars that were sand blasted and had to coat the whole roof of one car with bondo to fix it and every other part that was blasted on others. Another thing I saw posted that is dead wrong is putting bondo over any type of primer. DON'T DO IT!!! It will come back to haunt you later. Always put bondo only on bare metal. Best way to strip the car is chemical strip with aircraft stripper you can buy in any auto parts store and then follow up with 80 grit on a DA sander. I buy cheep DA's and use them for years. Paid $9.99 for one 20 years ago and still have it. Air tool oil will keep it alive forever. I did my 1968 Mustang in 1983 after chemical strip to bare metal and it has held up 100% other than paint fade from the sun to this date. I just used an old paint brush to spread the stripper on the car one pannel at a time and let it do its thing then come back with a putty knife or if you are carefull, a razor blade s****er. This will also remove thin coats of bondo but thicker spots need to be sanded out or ground out but don't use the grinder on metal or it will get hot and warp. After reading the ideas here I would go to a "good" body shop and ask them these questions before you start. That way you have the right answers and know what not to do. Bob
Bob, That used to be true, but with the epoxy primers bondo actually sticks better, lasts longer, & actually feathers better than over bare metal. Trust me I've been doing this **** for 35 years. The best thing to do when you have a car down to bare metal is prep it & epoxy it before doing anything else. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
Bondo over or under Epoxy? This has been cussed and discussed on another board too. Somebody got curious and did some tests and maybe it adds some more fuel to the fire. http://www.autobodystore.com/filler_&_epoxy.htm
If the person sandblasting it has any kind of experience, they can get away with not warping the panels of an older car. The 80 dollar blast job was done by a friend and it took about an hour. I had the car all ready to go and all he had to do was blast. I agree with everyone else, lay down epoxy right away and do your repairs right over the epoxy. Strip the bad areas that need metal work one at a time and reprime when you are done. I will try to get some pictures of my 50 ford straight out of the blaster.
I'm not at all satisfied with his test. I'm not convinced that he cured the epoxy correctly or long enough. He should also have let it cool before bondoing over it. He *did* prove, however, that bondo bonds well to epoxy even without sanding it (within a certain time period). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Remember we're talking about a Volvo here.... You can get a car hydro-blasted (where they use water & sand to prevent warping) but it always rusts before they're even through. To me that's just more work treating the metal. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Headline: APATHY RUNS RAMPANT - Nobody cares.
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