Well, I tore into the Chevy II motor today... AKA "F**K Speed-O-Motive!"

And I'm PISSED!

For 3 years I've attempted to "spare" the company that built the short block, only referring to them as "Suck-E-Motors", but this is the last straw... So here, now, I'll spill the entire story.


I paid Speed-O-Motive TOO MUCH money to build me a short block.


Here's what I ordered:

406 SBC (400 +.030)
splayed caps (which requires align boring)
ARP Main Studs
Bored/deck plate honed (should go without saying)
Zero decked
internally balanced, forged rotating assembly, w 6" H-beam rods, and 2 valve relief flat tops
Total seal gapless rings
"Professional" assembly

Price? ~$3500 shipped to my door.


I was told I'd have it in 3 to 5 weeks... It took seven MONTHS (As well as several phone calls).

I got a call from a freight company... It was at their dock, I needed to come pick it up (I thought I paid for residential delivery!?!)



Here's what I GOT:

Everything looked good at first... Until I fired it up. It was pissing oil all over the place.

It seems they put the wrong rear main seal in. I figured they put a stock rear main seal in the align bored block... a simple yet aggravating mistake.
NOPE! They put the seal for an align bored block in there.... Only problem? They didn't align bore the rear main cap!
I called, I thought maybe they'd do something to make it up to me. Instead, they mostly told me they didn't believe me, but they'd send a stock seal if I wanted it. (I wasn't too worried about the $10 part when I'd have to wait a week to get it!)


Got it fired back up, and everything seemed decent... I drove it for 2 summers.

I decided I wanted to go faster, so I took it to a local shop to have it "Dyno tuned". They all thought it should make way more power than it did, so we got to checking... 60% leakdown, on all 8 cylinders! (And I wondered why it kept blowing the dipstick out of the tube! )

It was obviously going into the crankcase, so I tore it down...

It seems that the ring end gaps were all in a perfect straight line on all 8 pistons. (And after seeing that I got suspicious and measured.... all of the pistons were .010-.013" in the hole... so much for ZERO decked!

Per the advice of the local shop, I covered the crank (but left it in the block), hit all the bores with a flex-hone, scrubbed the shit out of it, and put it back together with speed-pro Moly rings.

I drove it like that for a couple of weeks to get the rings seated, changed to the usual Mobil1, and headed back to the dyno...

First order was a leakdown test... all 8 were %30-%35. Better, but not right! After looking at some other motors that had "shadowing" in the bores, sure enough, that's what mine had looked like. They DIDN'T use the deck plates like I paid them to do...

Just to see, we did a little tweaking on the carb (It had a much stronger vacuum signal now), double checked the timing, and pulled it!

393 hp at the wheels... Not bad, but it made MORE with 60% leakdown!
Pulled it again... 308!?!? WTF???
One more pull and it made 204hp. Something was WRONG!

The oil pressure was good, but fluctuating maybe 3-5 lbs...

The motor would start up, but was getting tight (cranking a little slow). We decided not to hurt it anymore and towed it home...I pulled the oil filters, and it had copper colored "glitter" on top of both filters!


I put a different motor in it just to have summer wheels, and left the "real" motor on a stand in the garage for the last year... I just finally pulled it apart today.



Here's what I found...


The 3 center mains (the splayed caps) all spun.
The bolts were tightened various amounts, and none of them were as tight as they should've been.
2 of the outer bolt holes were stripped, and 2 were Helicoiled.

The front and rear cap ID's look good, but a factory finish. They only align bored/honed the 3 center mains!!!!

Several of the head STUD holes are helicoiled.

Every one of the steam holes is cracked to the head bolt hole next to it, and one steam hole is cracked into the bore.

The cam bore is not even close to centered in the machined flat in the front of the block, it's WAY off to one side.

Also, while I don't have a big enough Mic here to check it, my "micrometer eyeball" tells me the bores are WAY too big for the pistons.



I personally think this block is a piece of shit, that should've never been built upon in the first place. I should've checked it when I got it, but I was naive and just wanted to get the car on the road... shame on me for that...


Fortunately, I THINK I can save the crank, and the rods all look pretty good.
I have another block that I'm gonna put these guts into as soon as cash allows...



Merry Fuckin' Christmas!


End of Rant;




I guess to look on the bright side, the car went 10.70's with 60% leakdown... I can't wait to see how she'll run with the rings seated!


Now I'm gonna go spend time with my family and be happy.


Steve

 

WOW!

In a fresh block with the proper bore finish and new SpeedPro rings, it should run great!

 

My cousin had an engine built by those fella's. Paid real good money. When he got it there were little things that weren't right so he decided to look into it. Took it to some guy he knows and the block was absolute shit!
Called 'em up and they played it like he's the one that was responsible for the fucked up block. Nothing was torqued, cross hatch was non exsistant, just plain bad.
So he decides to have a lawyer give 'em a call after getting the run around. He doesn't usually resort to that but he had no choice...He got his money and a touch extra for the diag that was done...they sent a tag to pick up the engine so he's back to havin' his engines built locally were he can check on them.

 

i just redid a stroker motor from them...the list was as long

that truly sucks...by any chance can you tell who's splayed caps thay are using...the one i had here has milodon caps, but the owner was told the were Pro Gram


Fred

 

I believe these are Milodon... thay have a part number on them... I'll get it for you later....


Too bad I didn't know about the HAMB to get this advice a few years ago!

 

milodon caps suck, i have seen them off as much as .060 on the registers...one of the issues this stroker had ....piss poor machine work on the conversion as well

 

Sorry to hear about that. That really sucks...

I'm glad I read this now. I've been thinking of getting a motor from them. I think I better stick with engine shops I know do quality work.

 

So, if their caps suck that bad, should I just rock the factory 2 bolt caps(with ARP hardware)?

Or should I bite the bullet and get better caps?

I'm shooting for an honest 600 hp, and about 7500 rpm.

 

Im just btt- ing this. Everyone needs to know, so we all dont get a speedomotive screwing.

 

I'm glad I saw this thread, I was just thinking of having them build me a new short block. I guess I really need to just go to Scoggins Dickey(sp?) and get one and be done with it.


Nik

 

Thats why the only engine builder I trust is me. I know what I'm putting in the motor, and know what machine work is done, because I see it before its put together.

That royally sucks to get screwed on something like that. Thats alot of money to throw away.

 

I mentioned them to a friend of mine and he went nuts, apparently they lost a steel crank of his and gave him a cast crank. I will never use them. Sorry you got screwed!

Gordon

 

OK Fred, the caps say "MB 400-SS".

A quick google search brought up a few different companies selling them, but no mention of brand...


Thanks for all of the input and support so far guys!


Steve

 

You said all the gaps on the rings were lined up. Didn't you say you paid for GAPLESS rings?? At least one in the ring pack should have held more than 40% (60% leakdown). As far as a big enough Mike for the bores, you can stick a piston in the bore upside down and feeler gauge between the skirt and the bore to get an idea what your piston to wall clearance is (varies depending on piston being forged, cast, or hyperneurotic) PS-10.70s is a FAST small block! What's your car weigh?

 

You probably dont need to know any more about speedo but here it is anyway. they build motors to "match" advertised h.p. output. I worked at a shop with a dyno for 2 years and we did quite a few of their motors. none of them ever made advertised power and we were always called on to get more out of them. they would get upset when we couldnt squeeze 200 more hp out of one to make it match numbers.
as the kid in the shop, i was responsible for cleanup. they like chinese parts so they used a chinese oil filter adapter on an sbc. fired it up, blew the oil filter off. we thought they forgot to tighten it, two hours cleaning dyno room and a new filter. fire it up, blew off the oil filter. 2 hours cleaning dyno room and thoroughly inspect new filter and adapter/block sealing surface. everything seems fine. fire it up. and, you guessed it, two more hours of cleaning dyno room. apparently they didnt use a tight enough press fit on the oil filter adapter sleeve and it had pushed it out just enough so that the filter looked like it fit up tight to the block but it didnt.
doesnt help your situation but though youd like to know you are not the only one with a hit out on speedo.

 

Yeah, the "gapless" rings are actually a 2 piece ring, and you set the gaps 180* apart. Unless you're speed-o-motive, then you have both gaps in the same place, and just to make it look pretty, line that HUGE gap up with the other ring gaps too!




As far as weight, I haven't weighed it since I yanked the wiper and heater guts out (And did a little more swiss cheesing), but before that, it weighed 3120# (1580 front, 1540 rear) with me in the drivers seat (I go about 210#).

I want to go 9's. Even a 9.99 and I'd be content.



Steve

 

3120#s and 10.70s? That's it, i'm lining my ring gaps like they did! LOL That's no nitrous? That's a pretty fast car man. Wait 'til you fix THEIR problems. I want a ride/drive that thing. Oh yeah, good weight bias on that thing too.

 

Looked at there add many times and often thought about buying from em.they had some large stroker small block alot cheaper than most with a hp rating worth the money i thought.thanks for saving me a big mess and letting everyone in on this im glad i held off ordering one.

 

Steve, Sorry to hear this. I know you've been disappointed with this engine for some time. I can vouch for the fact that you've kept the name of the builder out of the public domain as you never told me who it was 2 years ago when we first talked about it. Well, i'm glad you finally decided to give the name up. EVERYONE needs to know about shoddy work and the companies who do it. To be forewarned is a big advantage. I've long thought that companies with customers located a long ways away took less care to do the job right simply because it was harder for that customer to get satisfaction if something went wrong, kinda "out of sight, out of mind". I've also wondered about this particular company because they SEEM to have some REALLY good prices. According to your experience and Fred's free would be to much.

Hearing stories like this sort of makes me wish I still had my engine shop going. I never had problems like this because every engine I built I put it together like it was going in my own car (and I'm one fussy son-of-a- bitch when MY money is on the line). Too bad Fred is so far away, sounds like he does things the same way from what's been reported on the HAMB.
Other than this , I'm hoping your having a good Christmas. Having those two little girls must help make the day better. Christmas is always nicer with children.

Frank

 

wow.......that is a part number for the cheapy sets you see on ebay all the time..........65-75 bucks gets you the set


edit...i just jumped over on ebay and did a search on splayed caps...speedomotive is selling on there out of their ebay store...also check your part number to those listed on the ebay stores at the bottom of the page........

 

Things like this should never happen.

That company has been in business for decades. I really never thought anything about them one way or the other, but after reading this post I deleted the links I had to them that were on two pages of my site:

Pioneers of Hot Rodding http://www.roadsters.com/pioneers/

Racing Engine Builders http://www.roadsters.com/eb/

For those of you who may be considering buying a crate engine, bear in mind that most of them are built without any time spent on the block itself. When I prep a block, I will spend a day with a die grinder smoothing out any areas where casting sand may have been left behind at the foundry. Doing this prevents bits of sand ending up in your bearings. While you're cleaning things up, you can also make it easier for the oil to drain back down. The point here is that most crate engines are built to the same standards as production car engines rather than what we can expect from a good racing engine builder. And there are lots of good ones. Follow the link I've provided to find a bunch of them.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

 

Sorry to hear you got ripped off, i nearly went the same route a few years ago but i did ask the question on here & was put off by the replies! Further to that i made a phone call to them & was really put off by the muppet i talked to, the answers he gave me were being read straight from there sales sheet & some other factors he had no idea what i was asking for.

Kev.

 

Iworked in a machine shop for a few years, I worked for a guy who was very talented and very good with all aspects of it.
But his business ethics were lousy.Never sent anything out the door on time ar at the price quoted.
He is a good friend but he doesn't do any of my work.
I do have somone who does excellent work but works out of his home garage , his stuff is tits and never any problems.
Just keep looking and when you find someone good, keep him happy!!

 

Those are made by C.A.T. based out of California and imported in from China. (you read C.A.T. I read J.U.N.K.) I wouldn't trust any engine shop that would put those in a race shortblock.

I'd be interested in knowing what crank and rods are in the engine too. I'm guessing their forged stuff is the came C.A.T. crap. Ug. I feel for you.

Before buttoning it up, I'd be sure to figure out what you have in there first.

 

double post... stupid computers...

 

It's an Eagle rotating assembly (I think!), with SRP pistons.


Hey Mike, don't you think that VSI wants to "sponsor" my Chevy II re-build?

Cough Dart Block Cough

 

While you mention C.A.T. i thought you might be interested in a set of their rods i bought for my flathead build, they are part #CRS7000 & very nice they are too.
I wanted to find out more info on these rods (as you do) before i use them so i did a little research, i asked their tech guy if they would work ok with a SCAT stroker crank & his reply was (you will like this) "make sure the crank is a US made item & not Chinese" so i dug further into SCAT & found out their earlier stuff was forged in China, but currently SCAT are US made.
The rods i have look too good to be made in China, but they are old stock so i guess that might be the answer. Also while i was at Vern Tardells place this year i asked if he had ever seen or used C.A.T. rods & he proceeded to open a cupboard door below his bench & pulled a set out! his words were "you'll have no trouble with these"
I guess the answer is we should insist that the major engine parts we buy are US made, why spend your hard earned cash on inferior shit! its a real shame some companies will even use that crap & claim it made in the USA.

It would be nice to have a list of all the companies who use China for manufacturing, i know its all down to costs & profit but i would rather pay the extra for the real deal.
Kev.

 

All SCAT forged cranks are Chinese forgings. They make a billet crank that is 100% US. The forgings are semi-finished in China, shipped here, sorted for junk (the fallout rate will scare you) and then finished.

As far as a list of companies that use China, wait about a year and it will be everybody you can name. Right now it's probably close to 70%.

Several crankshaft companies used Louisville Forge but got kicked out when Toyota business increased. Aftermarket companies are small potatoes compared with any OEM contract. Some companies advertising "Forged in the USA" are just using up their stock of the old forgings. Believe me, they are looking in China for a new forging source.

All we can do is keep insisting on US made products for our cars. Unfortunately, this may be as successful as insisting on a US made TV.

 

From what I remember, SCAT, C.A.T. and Eagle all used forgings that came from China. My Eagle book shows parts forged in China and finished in the US. I'm assuming SCAT is the same way, although the only thing printed in the catalog is a "Made in the USA" designation on a handfull of numbers.

While I am not an engine builder, I deal with many customers that are. I sell to your joe average machine shop to larger performance engine shops to big name engine builders. The reputable shops all use SCAT and Eagle products with success.

Here is what they recommend... make sure you check the cranks out completly! They are not an unbox and stick in a motor parts. Sometimes a bad one slips through.

Connecting rods really need to be sent with upgraded bolts, as the rods are good... the bolts suck.

Don't skimp on the rotating assembly! I've had to deal with irate customers who are pissed (at me) because they put cheap rods and crank into a race engine (a $8,000 race engine) and it imploded.

Just because someone you know used the cheap stuff and had success doesn't mean all of it is good!

 

Well - heres my two cents on everything...

As someone pointed out - all the forged cranks out right now are pretty much sourced from china. They send the semifinished cranks out to CAT, SCAT, EAGLE, etc and those companies do the final machine work.

Out of them all, the only one I have seen that is consistantly good is SCAT. Their machining is top notch and their QC seems better than the rest. I have not heard of anyone with a bad SCAT crank.

If you want to make 600hp out of a factory 400 block - you can - but its pushing it. I would only use a 509 or 511 casting 2 bolt block with good main caps like the programs. I would also do a short fill of hard block to stabilize the bores and bottom end on top of all the regular machining you are going to do. On a 400 SBC, boring with deck plates is a must with the head bolts so close to the bore. Otherwise you get shadowing and can see the threads from the head bolts in the bore if its bad! Deck plugs should definately be used at this HP level with a stock block. I know of people who fill the steam holes with a cast iron stitch. This apparently keeps them from cracking by filling the void and the threads tie it together, but they have to be put in right, and before any machine work is done.

I think it would be cost effective for a Little M block at this point and you will make more power.