1952-59 Ford Bags or no bags? that is the question!

Getting ready to start working on the frame of my 52 customline, I originally had planned on putting air ride on the car, after a long conversation with some anti air ride family members. I have started second guessing myself, Although I'm looking to sit pretty low if I go without, Since this is by far the best forum to ask any questions and get great answers, I would like some opinions on this matter, any pictures to support your view is appreciated. If anyone has any really low 52's with no bags I would appreciate pics of the stance here or PM ,

 

I will chime in with just about the same thing as everyone else will say. Go with the Aerostar springs up front and blocks in the back. You can even add blocks to the front a arms to get it even lower. Don't have any pictures for you though. Good luck!!

Rocky

 

I had bags on the front of my F100 and never liked the ride. It was nice to set the front bumper on the ground but I eventually went back to coils. Here's how it sat at ride height with the bags. It s****ed the running boards on some driveways.

 

Very nice Truck, Thanks for the info,

 

just my 2 cents, but unless you run smaller tires, and put a notch in the frame, it wont lay all the way on the ground. just from what i have seen in person from people who bag them and then not do anything else. . .

 

If I go with the bags I will be notching the rear and using a bridge for the brackets, I guess my real question in all this is how low can I go and still be driveable if I choose not to go with air ride.

 

Probably the best advice is send a pm to HAMB member Gambino Customs they sell kits for doing it and can probably send you to some links to see the work done.

 

My '54 has lowering blocks on the rear. My only gripe is if I had a flat I'd have to pull the blocks to change the tire. I too am thinking of bags in the future.

 

Depends on your priorities.

If you want to look "cool" in the eyes of other pro-baggers and wanna-be pro-baggers, by "laying frame" or other parking lot games, put the bags in enjoy their approval.

If, on the other hand, ride quality and handling while you're actually driving the car is important, lower your car moderately in a conventional manner using shorter front springs, de-arched rear springs and lowering blocks.

The only practical application of bags is the use of Air-Lift air helper springs with onboard air supply to help navigate steep driveways with a conventionally lowered car.

As a newbie you've yet to find your "comfort spot" in the hobby. Take time to "settle in" to the traditional hot rod culture before you go making radical changes to your ride...

 

how low , check out doll customs car. its low

 

Ok, Thanks Missysdad for the feedback, I would have to file that one under the opinion log, As I can tell you don't like air ride. Just an FYI. not a newbie to the hot rod world, just new to the ford world as I've been a GM guy my entire life. I would have to say that placing air ride on a car does not mean that you have poor ride quality and handling, I have owned several cars that have had air ride set ups that handle great and ride smooth, they just have to be done right and not cut corners.

 

olm, Doll kustoms car has a very nice stance, That would be the level I would go if I don't go air ride, Thanks for the info.

 

You are correct, I don't like air ride, but I think our goals are different. Everybody's idea of the meaning of the words "ride" and "handling" are different. What's good for one is unacceptable to others.

I also admit that my knowledge of current air ride technology is thin. I keep up with the technology through magazine articles and cars I see at car shows - including the Goodguys Shows which feature parking lot autocross compe***ions (this is what I mean when I use the word "handling".) - but I have no direct hands-on knowledge or experience.

I have seen some very impressive performance by "demonstration cars" fielded by various air ride companies and have learned that, done correctly with handling in mind, it is possible to create a car which rides well and handles in a very impressive manner...maybe even as well as a conventionally sprung car with similar modifications.

But...

...the vast majority of street cars fitted with air ride do not even begin to approach the standards set by the air ride companies' demonstration cars.

If one were able to set a '52 Ford up with an air ride suspension the equal of that on the demo cars - most of which are Camaros or Chevelles - I'd be completely on board with the air ride thing.

Unfortunately, the air ride suspensions I've seen on early cars have as a goal the ability to "lay frame"...with no particular attention paid to any other aspect of suspension function. Many, in fact, include workmanship and suspension geometry that are scary - including but not limited to the total disregard for front end alignment changes at various ride heights, the disregard for side-to-side migration of air pressure as the car corners, the omission of anti-sway bars and even shock absorbers in order to get the air ride components to fit, etc., etc. I'd submit that many more are done wrong than are done right - and that's the biggest reason for my opposition.

And, of course, that I think that the parking lot "slamming" games the air ride guys play are both pointless and stupid. But perhaps that's just my advanced age holding me back from understanding the point of it all.

Everybody knows that the cars that are slammed in the parking lot can't be driven that way, so they are sort of stationary statues - cartoons if you will - representing a level of automotive beauty that can't be achieved in the real world. The real kicker, though, is that the owners of these cars removed perfectly good suspensions in order to install new suspensions that are no better except that they allow the car to rest on the ground.

You're right. I just don't "get" it...

 

I know a lot of guys with the same views as your missysdad, I respect your view and do not ignore that you have several great points in your response. This is actually just what I was looking for some good ol debating on whats the best ( in everyone's own opinion), now I just need someone with air ride to come back with a response on how you are wrong and my evil plan will all come together.

 

so most of the demo cars such as the camaros and chevelles from from the big name manufacturers are pricey a lvl 3 or 4 setup will run you upwards of 10 grand for full shockwave bags progressive (active) air ride management units that constantly adjust the psi in the bags while cornering.

if your just an average joe like me then the Gambino Kit is the way to go. My 53 is going to be driven driven on long road trips, to local meets. not around race tracks or taking a corner at a high rate of speed. unless your pulling you flatty out and putting in a BB. bag it

lets face it when your hanging out with other car guys in a parking lot or a local meet your not sitting in your car and talking to them the whole time. why not let it sit there and look they way you want it to look bagged or with springs/blocks. go with what you think will look good.

personally i like the option to raise and lower it at a drop of a dime. you can adjust your PSI in your bags on the fly. and you dont always have to lay it out in the parking lot.

but i know some frame layers in my area that use that as there e brake lol.

good luck.

 

Missysdad has offered up some sound advice . While I don't own ( and would not want to) a bagged vehicle I have worked on one or two (making repairs/changes) . The ONLY reason I can see for bagging a mid '50s car is for parking effect. Some folks enjoy seeing a car sitting on its rockers at a show, so if how it looks parked is your top priority
then I say go ahead and bag it.
If how it steers , stops and goes around corners is your top priority then invest in decent brakes, and look at CONVENTIONAL suspension upgrades - consider the various power steer options too ( I have converted my wife's '55 ranchwagon ) .



Ok, soapbox is free now if anyone else would like a turn ?

 

I can see this subject has a very wide range of opinions, It's always fun to see all sides of the situation and nobody is right or wrong.

 

Yes. Jeff (JeffB2) has worked tirelessly as moderator of this group since starting it with the goal of providing a discussion group where debate can be spirited while remaining always respectful. From the get-go he (we) have not tolerated disrespect in any form, and outright flaming is a ticket back to wherever the poster came from.

I truly believe that this structure is the main reason this group has grown to the size it has and has the amount of activity it does. Thanks, Jeff, for a job well done...

 

I have joined several groups on H.A.M.B and I can honestly say that this one by far has the best posters and respect for each other. I can't even get anyone to talk on the 59-60 chevy forum lol.

 

I have to agree with missydad1 on this one . I am NOT going to sit here and tell you the good , bad and ugly of doing this because you pretty much have your mind set on slamming the frame on the ground . I really never understood or saw the point in it but that's me . I like a car to sit a little lower than sock in the front and run just a little higher in the rear than the front is but that's me . I like something that will corner good and stop good , just be a safe car all around and be dependable . I want to enjoy it , to drive it , stand on it when I get the notion to do so and enjoy all the hard work I put into it !
On the other hand I will never understand spending all that money and cutting up a frame just to keep bottoming out on the ****py roads we drive on everyday . Then going to a parking lot just to be with some other people so they can see that I too can push a switch and have my frame hit the pavement I will never get ! Maybe I am getting too old but I have an open mind when it comes to Hotrods . To me that is the biggest waste of money I have ever seen ! What is the purpose ? If you want the car to lay on the ground , then just remove the tires and your done ! I just want one really good reason to do that to a car beside wanting it to lay on the ground .
If the car manufacture wanted the car to do that , then they would make them . There is a reason they don't make a car do that and it's the handling and safety factor that is involved .
I am just curious when something goes wrong , PLEASE I hope this never happens , but what will the insurance companies do when a car gets into an accident and that car is one that can slam the frame to the ground and has the original frame all cut up to do so . Can you honestly say they will make good on the insurance ? What about if you were at fault ? Don't you think the other people , lawyers and so on will have a field day with you because your frame was cut so you can put airbags in to slam it to the ground ?
Of course in the end , it's your ride so you can do what you want with it ! Just think ahead and be safe !
Just my opinion !

Jim

 

well i like the on the ground on the right ride, not all rides. i happen to like it on this i think it looks so cool. dont care for the wheels. but i like where its going if it had different wheels.

 

Actually I have not made up my mind yet, I don't want anyone to think I am pro one way or the other, I have owned cars of both, just not a ford in this era, My main focus was to get feedback for this car, as each car is differnet when it comes to suspension lowering and air ride. At this point I can honestly say I'm leaning towards blocks in the back , Aerostar springs and either spacers or spindles in the front, I can't hide the fact that I like em low, I can always change it in the future if I have issues with the height or ride, I do honestly think that a lot of people have the wrong idea on air ride as a whole, yes you do get to slam the car to the ground but the actual ride is very nice if it's done right.

Retro Jim- I can actually say I have never thought of the insurance aspect of it. I actually have never been in an accident other than a guy backing into me in a parking lot once.

 

Johnmltn, Look up on youtube WestCoast Kustom Santa Maria. There you will see many cars with air bags cruisin the streets about a inch off the ground.
If you don't want to do air bags then you might think of Hydraulic suspension. My friend does suspension work and he did his 54 that way. He has two pumps ( one for the front ,one for the rear) three batteries 1st one runs car all three for lifts. One hose for each cyl so oil can't transfer side to side four release valves. 6 incl in front with springs and shocks! 8 inch cyl in the rear with shocks. Car has a front and rear sway bars. He has it so car will drop to 1 inch off ground. I have been in the car on a winding road and it handles great and the ride is smooth. Been in other 54's with bags and his set up beats the bags. He said he used 1/2 ton Chevy truck springs in front ( cut down) and front springs from a olds Cutl*** for the rear.
I like the way his car rides and handles to the point that I will have him Do my 54 Crestline the same way.
When I bought my 54 the po had the rear of car way up in the air and to me that was acceptable. Two inch drop spings and 2 inch blocks have it down from the nose bleed at***ude. 3 inch drop spindles 1 inch springs.
Just my .02 cents on the subject.

 

Risky, Thanks for the info. I love the stance of your 54.

 

Here's a photo of my latest project. Custom lowering springs and blocks in rear, dropped spindles/Aerostar coils in front. Have not driven this particular car yet other than onto and off of the trailer so can't tell you how it rides. I have aftermarket HD gas-filled shocks and anti sway bars front and rear for the car as well. Plenty of spring travel so it should work out just fine.



I like this ride height - low but doesn't look squashed or like a cartoon. I tucked the exhaust tips just inside the bumper so they won't get flattened, but I expect to s****e bottom fairly regularly. I've had nothing but lowered cars for the past 45 years and have learned to plan ahead when it comes to steep driveways and road hazards...

 

Not to thread jack but I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you look up the definition of "perfect ride height", MD1's '54 Merc picture is right below it. Love how that thing sits. Okay - back to the topic of to bag or not bag.

 

I agree Dos, Md1's Merc sits perfect.

Missysdad1- what sizze tires and wheels is that Merc currently sitting on.

 

OK opinions are just that. IMO slamming, low frame dragging, in the weeds is a fad. Kinda like huge wheels and rubberband tires with 11" disc or drums. All about the look. Unless you are running trans-am or vintage road or the like, just a look.

This look got defined as cool based on a real performance appearance. The rest is marketing and well fad.

So if you like it do it.
Cloud Rider

 

I've taken my car as low as I want to go with a static drop. I'll probably bag it to drop it a couple more inches, and pick up a smooth ride. My friend bagged his desoto (also a former big static drop car), and I can't get over how well it rides.

I agree, bags are for groceries, but with the technology available, I can have my car look like a so-cal car from the 60s (2.5 inches off the ground), and have it ride like a Cadillac. I don't like cars that lay frame, they just look broken and silly. To each their own.

 

jonhmltn: The tires on my Merc are 205 x 75 x 15 radials. The wheels are later-model Ford OEM steel wheels as required for disc brake clearance on the front. I don't know the width, but I'd guess they're 6-inches wide with close to zero offset.

The car's got all late-model underwear - spindles, brakes, rear axle, engine, trans, etc. - but everything was so well selected that it looks completely stock on the outside.

The previous owner had a very good eye for proportions and the car had been about this low prior to the Lincoln Mk VII LSC coupe 5.0 HO engine/trans swap, but was raised to allow the stock factory exhaust headers to be employed and still have adequate ground clearance under the pipes. Bad move!

I've re-lowered the car and will re-route the exhaust once it's back on the road. This tire size is just about right for the car. Thanks for asking.