I'm kind of stumped. Have a '55 Victoria that's been modified with a 289/C4 in place of the 272/FOM, and rewired with a custom loom for 12v with alternator that has a later-model blade-style fuse block. The car still uses the original neutral safety switch on the shifter column in the engine bay and ignition switch. Last Saturday I finally had a chance to get it started and let it idle for a while to burn off some older gas. When I went to put it into reverse I goosed the throttle, chirped the tires, then it stalled. Went to hit the ignition switch and - Nothing - no power to solenoid, no power to lights when I pulled on the light switch...nothing. Checked the battery connection (posts/terminals were tight), but no juice. Put the battery into my '63 T-bird and it turned over with no problem. Pushed the car back into the barn and walked away, so I haven't started to trace down what happened and why there's no juice flowing. What did I do to kill the entire electrical system? Is it possible that I fried the ignition switch, or should I be looking for something else?
Your best friend is a test light,first with the key switch on look for power at the solenoid and since you stated no power at the solenoid that strikes me as strange because the battery should be negative - to ground off the engine block and positive + to the solenoid so you should have juice there,with the key switch on you should have juice at the "I" terminal of the solenoid.Did you install ground straps when you swapped engines? I would run a strap from an intake bolt to the firewall and a ground strap from the alternator bracket to the frame.You may want to use the test light on all the fuses and also to the power lead into the fuse box with the key on.If no results hopefully a call to the company that made your wiring kit has a tech department to give you a hand.One other place to test light for current is at your alternator.Let us know your results.
It is possible you fried the switch which is something I did when I rewired my '54.I added an electric fuel pump,electric fan and A/C the factory switch is not made to handle it so I added relays to reduce load the ignition switch now has a 70 AMP relay on it and the fuel pump,fan and headlights also have their own relays which are 30-40 amp.One thing that has been brought up on the main board many times over is folks complaining that they have dim headlights even after changing to newer halogens,adding the relays to your headlights will make a huge difference! I tried to post the link to Watsons street works article about relays but it does not want to work at this time.Adding relays is inexpensive but the best investment you can add to your system.Here is a source for them with better deals than the automotive aftermarket http://www.frys.com/product/6401272?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG and http://www.frys.com/product/4191633?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
When you go to your local retail store next to the relays will be the color coded plug in pigtails about $3 each. This is the replacement switch I used in my '54 http://www.frys.com/product/4191633?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG most of the aftermarket Ford suppliers will triple the price like Dennis Carpenter or Mac's you may want to upgrade to a HD solenoid like this: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...olenoid_1332313_3092&keyword=starter+solenoid if you plan on adding any extra accessories like sound system upgrades.
Sounds like an engine ground problem? Especially under the cir***stances of torquing the engine over a bit. Some basic information on relays, and also a good source for parts and lights: http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Relays.aspx
test light is a very good friend to have. if someone took the harness out of a donor car, i would look for a burnt fuseable link off the starter solenoid.
As others have said a test light/probe and/or a multimeter should locate the issue, but my experience with these problems is it is almost always something simple to cause complete loss of power. The first place to check is the battery, then battery connections then the connection at the solenoid. Confirm that your engine is earthed and that the battery is earthed to the body. If you have headlights working you know that power is getting to fuse panel, if not check the main feed from the battery to the fuse panel. Most of these aftermarket kits use a main inline fuse or fusible link. If this blows you will lose all power. There is no simple way to find these faults but to check the circuits in a logical fashion. Start at the battery and work out from there. You may find a poorly crimped connection or broken wire. The good thing with the aftermarket harnesses is that most of them have the use of each wire printed on the wire. Good luck Regards
Thanks for the responses, all. I'm not using an aftermarket harness and I don't have any high-draw accessories on-line: just plain old 12v bulbs (no halogens), horns, power seat; no radio, no heater, etc. I had a street rodder friend of mine make a new harness for me from scratch when we were in college in the early '80s that abandoned the old heavy yellow power wire and generator regulator connections in place as we moved the voltage regulator to the p***enger fender under the heater blower, and ran a new heavy-gauge wire from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch. In fact we still have a "temporary" hookup of a power lead from the starter solenoid to the horn relay with a Scotch-Lock twist-on connector that needs to be cleaned up. It's been so long now I've forgotten if we wired in a fusible link or a fuse that would kill the entire system. I did have an issue with the starter solenoid last year that resulted in me changing it out. What's screwy is that I had to hit the starter several times last Saturday afternoon, and each time it worked as expected - no inkling of any problems until I had to move the car after idling for 10 minutes or so. Sounds like quality time with the test light, jumper wire and multimeter this Sunday. Ground is currently (no pun intended) from battery to block/front exhaust manifold bolt, which over time isn't a real good idea, so I should look at another place for this connection.
OK do you have other ground along the frame and body ? Just one like that isn't enough but that's not the problem I don't think . Have you tried to just use a fire from positive side of battery to coil , then use a jumper wire to trip the starter solenoid to start the car that way ? That will by p*** the wiring harness and let you know if the starter and battery is good enough to start the engine . It really sounds like your starter has a problem or a wire is loose . The starter can also have a dead spot on the armature and you may not hit it until once out of a 100 starts . Now when you turn the key all the way to start , does the horn work , lights work or anything like that OR is everything totally dead period ? First make sure the battery is charged 100% and can take a load for about 15 seconds and still be good . Any battery place or parts dealer can test the battery for you if you don't have a tester . Now check ALL the battery cables and connection to the battery . Then check the wire from the solenoid to the ignition and back to the starter . Those are the wires that give the power to the starter . If all those wires look good and the connections are good and clean , then the ignition switch might be the problem . If you pull the ignition switch out of the dash and look on the back it will tell you what wire does what . You can just jump the ON or + wire with the START wire and the engine should turn over . ****VERY IMPORTANT******* Please make sure the emergency brake is on and the wheels are chocked good . When doing theses tests you are by p***ing the neutral safety Switch so please be very careful ! Let us know how you make out . Jim
Hi every one I have enjoyed this group , I have a question, my 56 t bird motor just quit running, it is in a 54 mercury, i cant get any spark out of the coil, It has been running fine , just sputtered & quit , no spark no matter what I do, new coil ,points ,condersor, plugs ,wires , cap, is there a ground strap going from the motor to the ch***is? I dont see one on this car? the motor is not out of timing , m does any one have any ideas? this car is 6 volt postive ground , thanks Stan <LI cl***=smallfont>Edit Report
thanks Jeff, I was thinking along those lines also the car has run fine for 9 months ? I will try to do that tommorow night, I have looked & I see no signs of a ch***is to motor ground strap ,, I will let you know if it works ,thanks again Stan
You my friend could have a grounding problem. You need a good ground to complete any circuit so if the battery is fine the only thing left is the ground. When you have a high current load it becomes even more important. Last week the Taurus fan I swapped into my daughters Mustang would not work on high speed. It turned out to be a screw on the fuse block terminal that was less than an 1/8 of a turn loose but it was enough to create enough resistance in the circuit that it would not work. IMHO you can never have enough grounds and the more electronic stuff you add to your old car the more important it becomes.
Quick update - got under the dash this morning, found the 9-amp fuse on the back of the headlight switch was blown. Have to get ahold of some replacements at the parts store and put it in when I get home tomorrow. Crossing my fingers and toes...
Might be a good time to add the relays to the headlight circuit,you'll be surprised at how much brighter they will be, if you have a Fry's electronics close by the Bosch 30 amp relays and pigtails will run about $14 for a pair.
Update: Spent time tonight tracking down a few items. Replaced fuse on back of light switch - no dash or headlights, no turn signals. Jumped the starter solenoid and engine turns over. Managed to break the lead from the ignition switch to the turn signals while attempting to put the inline fuse holder back together. Still need to spend quality time with test light, multimeter and jumper wires, but it's looking like I at least fried the ignition switch. Will keep checking and post update later.
Saturday update: In order to repair the wire for the turn signal feed from the ignition switch, I decided to go ahead and drop the ignition switch to remove the orange/blue wire so I can repair the fuse pigtail on the workbench. And since the speedometer head was not clamped into place, plus the radio, speaker/grille, clock and glove box are currently out of the dash, I can get to the light switch and wiring through the opening for the speedometer head. But I couldn't get one of the two screws out to move the emergency brake bracket out of the way to make it easier to get to the ignition switch from the underside. Since I already have a new ignition switch on the shelf, I thought I would swap it out and see if it takes care of the no-start/no-lights problem. Or so I thought - I pulled the key cylinder out of the old switch and went to insert it into the new one, but for some darn reason it won't drop in. When the key is aligned so that the pin at the top rear of the cylinder drops in order to slide the cylinder into the switch body, the tang in the back of the key cylinder appears to be 90-degrees out of phase with the corresponding slot in the new switch, and I can't get the key/cylinder to rotate to drop into the slot and seat the cylinder in the switch body. I must be doing something wrong here. Any thoughts? Long story short - haven't checked the wire between the ignition and light switches yet, but visual inspection doesn't seem to show any melted wiring at the light or ignition switches. However I do realize I need to check for power from the battery to the light switch, and from the light switch to the ignition switch.
Update: finally got an afternoon/evening to try swapping out the ignition switch, trace wires and checking for continuity. First of all, the replacement ignition switch wasn't rotated to the OFF position, so once I got a screwdriver in there and rotated the switch to the correct position, the key and cylinder dropped right in. Now to the wiring issue. I was getting power from the battery to the starter solenoid, but not from the solenoid to the ignition switch, plus not getting power to lights, either. By rights, I should be getting power from the battery via the powered post of the starter solenoid to the main wire that feeds the ignition switch. So I took wires off the starter solenoid and ignition switch to check for continuity: wire from "I" terminal of solenoid to "IGN" terminal of switch had continuity, as did wire from "S" terminal of solenoid to "S" terminal of switch. These wires were pretty straightforward to figure out - each has a specific terminal to go to, so it didn't matter that the wire color didn't match that of the factory harness so long as I could trace them. The original heavy yellow wire from starter solenoid to ignition switch was replaced in the custom harness with a heavy red wire, and another heavy red wire in the same harness runs from the ignition switch to somewhere I haven't figured out yet (I want to think it goes to the alternator). To complicate things there is also a heavy yellow wire going from the solenoid to the 40A relay under the center of the dash for the 4-way power seat. I tried to check continuity from starter solenoid end to ignition switch end by jumpering the ends to the multimeter probes and with the dial set to check ohms/resistance, got a '1' reading meaning open circuit/break. I also tried to place a test light between the wire and ignition switch: no light = no power, but I'm not sure I had everything hooked up correctly, i.e. solenoid not bolted/grounded to fender apron, switch set to ACC or IGN positions. So I want to try checking this wire again before I cut the loom open and replace it. Since I currently don't have a heavy gauge yellow wire running to the ignition switch from the starter solenoid, I'll be getting a roll of yellow 10 gauge tomorrow and fabricate a byp***/jumper to see if this gets me power to the ignition switch and lights: if this works, replacement of the red wire will be in order to replicate the factory wiring diagram more closely. If the ignition switch works but the lights don't then I need to sort out the light circuitry and may need to source a light switch. I'm scratching my head as to how this wire would just up and fail without warning - once I cut the loom open and pull the wire out I may figure it out, but for now I just want to get things working again.
Yuan, the feed for power in a factory harness to the ignition is fed off the headlight switch. I would think your friend that replaced wiring sometime ago may have followed the factory wiring and the red wire you are checking does not come directly from the solenoid but is broken and connected to the light switch first. A loose connection at this point would show up as an open circuit. Remove the headlight switch and check that you have power on the big nut connection on the back. Don't worry about the fuse on the back of the switch, this is for interior lights only. From everything you are saying it sounds like the connection on the headlight switch is loose. Regards
Update (not so much): I spoke with the guy who wired the car back in '84 - needless to say he couldn't remember how he had routed the wiring. Have held off working on the thing because I really f'ed up my back trying to figure the underdash stuff out, but am about to the point where I'm up to trying to frog around again. Fabricated a jumper wire from 10ga wire to run from the solenoid to the ignition switch, but ran out of time to hook it up this afternoon - may try it tomorrow. Need to follow up on Rick55's comment and check the connection at the headlight switch, but I'm anticipating that I will end up replacing it with either a '55 truck (B5T-) switch or a '56-7 switch, which is cheaper anyway. I also dug around the engine bay and found that the front parking light wires are probably a contributing factor for the light issue as the original wiring insulation and heavy rubber sheaths crumble when handled, and there were several places where there were bare wires next to each other. Needless to say I need to replace these and for now have removed them from the car. Now my question is when ordering replacement wiring/sockets for these, is there a replacement with the mounting plate attached, and if not, how do you remove the socket from the plate and replace it? I prefer not to cut/splice wires/contacts if at all possible.
The contacts in the sockets will pop out with a push from a small screwdriver or punch,I found the replacement contacts and pigtails at Autozone.The connectors and splices at Autozone and O'Reillys are chinese junk stuff,SURPRISE! The connectors and terminals at your local Wal-Mart are 3M brand USA made use the insulated spade connectors ans shrink wrap over where the wire goes in.If you are going to repair or replace the existing wiring you might want to go to Ace Hardware you can buy it by the foot and they have more colors so as you replace each circuit write down the color codes you used for reference later.In the long run a Rebel Wire harness may be a good alternative.
I'm thinking I'm close to resolution, but not quite there yet. Installed new starter solenoid and connected my multimeter in-line between the positive post of the battery and the hot side of the solenoid - when set on the 20 volt scale it was measuring 0.016 volts. Next I checked the heavy wire from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch with my digital mul***ester's ohmmeter and got a big fat '1' meaning there's no current p***ing through, i.e. break in the line. Next I ran a 10 ga wire from the starter solenoid into the car and to the ignition switch's battery terminal, but did not attempt to energize the system. Found the factory yellow lead from the battery side of the ignition switch to the light switch - connection was tight at the light switch post. I did not get a chance to test power/continuity as it was time to quit for dinner and visit with the in-laws. The next step I'll take will be to reconnect the wires to the ignition switch's battery terminal, connect the cables to the battery and see if lights come one and if I can get the starter to turn over. That will be later this week or this weekend.
The Jalopy Journal
