Hi again guys!! So, I had figured a Chrysler big block would be a tight fit in a Model A ch***is, but not until I mocked it up last night did I realize what a challenge this could be. The oil filter is right where you'd put the steering box on a cross-steering car, the starter is on the driver's side, and they have a fairly long water pump. I haven't even looked into clutch linkage and a pedal ***embly for this yet. I think I can move the engine up and forward some in the car, but I didn't have the time to try it last night. Before I go trying to re-invent the wheel (again), has anyone here put one of these in an early Ford ch***is? Pictures anyone? I saw a Model A sedan at Paso Robles in May '04 with a long-rammed big block, but I wasn't building a Model A then, so I didn't pay attention to the mounting situation. Any of the '58 to '78 Chrysler big blocks and '64 to '71 Hemis have the same dimensions from below the cylinder heads, so I'm hoping someone in the HAMB collective conscious can tell me something. Thanks again everyone!
Put a remote oil filter on it. The 413 and the 440 are tall deck blocks so the heads are going to be in a slightly different place, not enough to make much difference. Don't move the mill forward it will make it a pig, move the engine back, as tight into the firewall as you can. I put a B/RB in a Bucket T when I was in highschool. Its not that big a deal just put it in where it goes and work around the little chit. No harder than putting a big block anything in a small ch***is. The starter does pose a problem, but it can be worked around. Just have to use some imagination.
Okay, I was able to find a picture of the Cross-long-rammed Big block Mopar Model A I was thinking of. Who owns this car? This photo is from the 2004 Paso Robles. Anyone know? Anyone get more pictures of this car? Details?
Hi scott on my 27 drag car I made a plate thet bolted on the water pump housing and did away with the water pump then I used a electric pump mounted on the frame rail. I also used a remote filter like pork n****** said I still have the adapter if you want a picture(it is for sale). You can also buy a mini starter for a bb Mopar. Hope some of this helps. Robert rlsteel@juno.com
That sedan belongs to Jetfuel here on the HAMB and if I remember correctly it started life as a 4 door chrysler.
A low deck Mopar big block (361,383,400) -- (*350) also but odd and rare will weigh about 70 lbs less than a 413 or a 440 .. a low deck big block Mopar is about is smaller at the widest point -- deck /cylinder heads by 1" 1/2" The do make some mini starters to get you a little room for steering and you can buy a Moroso electric water pump, but it will use the stock housing Some housing's have water exit on driver side , typically the trucks exited on the p***enger side .. You can not use a RB intake (413,426 wedge,440) on a low deck block .. Nice combo is the 400 block with a 440 crank makes 451 cubes, torque curve is great .. Thanks for considering a Mopar engine , it is more work .. But it will be worth the effort
HAMBer "Cliffy" has a '23 T bucket with a tri-power 383 Mopar/four speed stick and his car has a regular starter and oil filter on it, might want to shoot him a PM, maybe he can send you some pics of how all his **** is mounted. He didn't build it but he could probably still be helpful. (he's got the car all apart for a makeover right now)
Its not the pump that's long its the housing that's big n bulky. you can get an aluminum houseing, not any smaller but you loose about a ton. We always considered a big block MOPAR to be a big SBC with the oil pump in the right place. You can put an SBC in anything. Truck pan has a rear sump instead of a center sump, makes it easier to put one in a 50s car. 75/6 truck mounts are the way to go if you're going to use side mounts instead of a motor plate. you make stands just like anyone makes for an SBC only stouter. Plan on useing a tall gear, a 3.55 is considered to be a low gear for a B/RB, in a light body you'll have trouble keeping it glued down with a 3.0 gear. they make tons of low end torque, but are not a natural revver. A 6K 440 is really zinging. You'll love it when its done. well worth the effort.
Big thanks everyone! I've been a Mopar guy since I got my license. I've had a handful of big block musclecars. I'll PM Jetfuel and Cliffy, hopefully they can send me some detail pictures. With the engine with the fan 1/2" or 1" away from the radiator, the engine will probably sit 4" or more behind the firewall. I'll just get started, take a few pictures to show you guys!!
Remote filer is the way to go. There are 2 different filters that both fit, one short and the other long, I like the short ones. Get em from MOPAR performance or Jegs, they have a thicker case which I like, since mine will have 85 lbs of oil pressure on occasion. As far as starter goes, Don't buy an expensive ministarter. Get a starter out of a 2000 Dakota with a V8. They sell em in Jegs for 145 brand new. They're literally half the size of the old ones, have a built in gear reduction and can crank over a mill with silly compression. Money well spent. Just trim the bolt for the positive terminal about 3/8" and it's a direct bolt in. As much as I love the 383 and the low deck motors, there are more parts available for the tall decks. I doubt the top end width will realy play a role in building a rod. It's true that they aren't natural revvers, but the amount of low end torque they produce is silly. Manuals for the B/RBs are outrageously expensive, but the torqueflight is bomb-proof. Most of the old super stock MoPaRs were automatics anyway. I dig this project idea. Keep me posted
I have a 413 in my '30 coupe. It's pretty damn tight, but doable... and an amazing mill to have in a light car. The driver's side of those mills has all the bulky **** on it; starter, oil pump/filter. The hardest part is steering. There's not really any good way to do it in the 'stock' location. The starter is in just the right place to be a *****. I'm running an F3 box attached to a plate on the frame behind the firewall (if you can get an F1 or F100, they're a little smaller). Steering arm comes through a scoop on the cowl. I have a remote oil filter, as the stock location is REALLY tight to the front x-member. You could always notch it, but it MAY interfere with your front springs. The dual filters are frame mounted. I used the original firewall and flipped and narrowed two others to recess the mill into. I have HUNDREDS of pictures of this car in all stages and will be glad to help you out. I'll see what I can dig up. PM me if you like. Run the 413!! They look wild, sound bad*** and go like a ****d ape. Jonny
HOLY ****!!!! That's what I'm talking about!! I could not thank you enough for some pictures of your set-up, I'll take 'em all!!!! My email address is rabidscott@yahoo.com. I have a running 335 horse 383 for it right now, but I have a freshly machined .030 440 block and forged crank to build up for it later... I also have a Ford truck box/column, I think its an mid 50's F1, that would work well.
Where'd you get the LongRam from? I've been looking but cant seem to find one for a reasonable price. thanks Gary
Don't know where to get one, but I've seen side mounted units on SBCs in 914 Porches. A pair of fittings on the block, hoses going to a housing and what looked to be a big block Mopar pump. bet somthing like it would get you some room.
I Put some photos on my Yahoo photo page. Try this link: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/firedome_8/album?.dir=/92d3 If the link does not work, send me your email address and I will try again. I didn't build mine, bought it the way it is. I am in the middle of "beating the 80's out of it" so it is torn down a bit....but great for photos of the starter, oil pump and steering. I have a Corvair steering box, NOT reversed and my steering column is vertical. Kind of a pain in the ***, but it works great for a table at the drive-in!! The reversed the box using the big white bracket you see by the starter. It works pretty good and is VERY simple. I am having problems with my oil filter hitting the lower rad hose, I am going to try to do something about it yet this winter, not sure what yet. The starter fits great. I am glad to offer any photos you may need or advise as I get into my project in the coming weeks. My engine is a '69 383 built just a tad. I don't even need the two extra carbs really. It is WAYYY too much power for this car. Later Mike
No doubt. I have wanted one for while. I have a 383, but the mopar performance heads will alow B locks to run RB intakes. I sill kinda wish I had built a 440. oh well.
I don't wanna hijack this post, but I got them from a buddy of mine in Rhode Island. He happened to pick some up at a swapmeet or Ebay or something, knew I wanted a set, and we made a trade for one of my paintings. It worked out well. They do pop up for sale on "Egay" as the kids call it, but they're kinda pricey, even bare like mine. I need some 390s. Btt Jonny
Just so you know .. Long ram intakes will not fit on Low deck blocks all big block heads interchange ..The best steel heads to use , the part # ends in 452 or 906 --You will find this number cast into the head under valve cover between valve springs on the top of the port p***age .. Most 452's have hardened seats already..
Okay guys, I got some time to fiddle around with it this weekend. Just experimentating, because this is my first Model A. I moved the motor forward a little, and up little. I had to remove the body subframe pieces so it would fit. It's going to sit several inches behind the firewall, but that's probably not a surprise to you guys who have built these before. Looks like the oil pump/filter being front left won't be too much of a problem. The stock water pump outlet on this motor exits on the driver's side, which would be a bear to work with, but I had one of the pump housings where the outlet is on the p***enger side, where there is nothing in the way. If the front of the motor sat a little bit higher, I bet I could put a steering box there. I'd actually like to raise the front of the motor so the fan would be centered more in the radiator, as well. I need to get a dropped axle for this thing, first, so I'll know where the carb will be level. The one real big last question mark in my head is the pedal ***embly. The 727 ain't staying, and I need to get the ****tershield and ****** in there so I really know where everything will be. I was think about using the F1 pedal ***embly, but I don't have one to mock up yet. Should be fairly tight. I also wanted to say a big "Thanks!!" again to everyone!
Hey Scotto, I agree with a lot of what's said here. My take? Front to back; - I've got about 32 inches from radiator shell to firewall. - I've got another inch or two of firewall recess. - The pumps are long, but whatevah. Just leave plenty of room up there and get a flat fan. - The oil filter isn't in my way because I have cowl steering. - It's in the way of the bottom radiator hose, but you can get around that. - My motor is back as far in my recess (made out of the piece of sheet metal that used to form the back of the front seat) as possible to the point that a spark plug won't fit between the valve cover and the recess on the p***enger side. I think that's about it. Any other questions, feel free to ask. Complete build photos can be viewed at: http://wheeltramps.com/gallery/Build-Photos The BB Mopar will fit just fine in your car. Metal is our *****. Don't get overwhelmed by everything at once. Think out one problem at a time. -JetFuel
The 1960 Dodge D500 used a crossram intake on a 383. That same year, you could get a 361 in a Polara with the same induction. Not sure if the 383 was still tall-deck in '60, but I'm pretty sure the 361 never was. Either way, I've never seen a B-block crossram engine, just heard that they do exist.
Scott, You might get ahold of Raven61 here on the HAMB. He's got some sort of box that actually bolts to the bottom of the ch***is. I think its a common box but I couldn't for the life of me tell you what he used. Anyway it may just cure a lot of ills for ya. Personally I'm going with a cowl steer and be done with it. but I'm not building your car (just useing your wheels).
You can put the crossrams on either block because the porting and bolt pattern is the same. The lifter valley is a different width, but that only matters if it's one solid casting. With it being two only connected by linkage and hose, you can do anything you want with 'em. I want to see one sitting alone on the side of a slant four. -JetFuel
Yep, you can bolt them on, but if you don't bolt down the brackets underneath, they will crack very soon. I'm sure it could be rigged up right though. Friend of mine in college had a '65 Satellite with a 426 wedge and the crossram intake and four-speed. This was just 5yrs ago too... *****in car.
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