COE Is there a reference list for front axles?

I am putting the 55 lcf together in my mind so I know what to look for and also have a plan when I get to start on it. I am using most of the parts off an '81 S1800 IH school bus with air brakes. I want to keep it air brake etc, but the existing front axle on the bus is too wide for the truck body. Is there a chart or list anywhere that I can look up different straight axles and see what is out there? I want to keep the 26k gvw as it will be a shop truck to make deliveries etc.
I have found lists for rear axles and transmissions and lots of other things but I have never found a list or book with the front axles in it.
Any ideas?

Thanks,
Jason

 

narrow the axle, it is forged steel, it will weld beautifully. no reason to look beyond what you already have! take a look at "narrowing axle" threads on the main hamb site. You will be way ahead in the build. if you don't weld, pay a weldor to do it for you. easy stuff

 

That is honestly the plan right now. I do weld and typically I am in the just do it camp but I have had enough people comment about it that I figured I would at least research and see if there is something available that I could use. If I don't find what I want by the time I need it, I will carry on with cutting it down.
Thanks

 

Grab a tape rule and go look at an Isuzu NPR. I bought a 90 model and it was too narrow for what I was doing, might be right for you.
As jcillch said, they are fairly easy to narrow, here is a guy's photo album where he put Freightliner (I think) axles under a Ford 1 ton.
https://picasaweb.google.com/118082002072608219229/61FordF350DetroitDiesel6V53T

 

Steve, thanks for the link. I have looked through some of his stuff before but didn't see this truck. I do think that I will end up cutting it so I can use the components I already have and so I don't have to mess with converting spindles and such to keep my brakes. I hadn't thought about making a spring pad adapter like he did.
I am most likely going to move the eng and trans to behind the cab, it is a 9.0L v8 and after working on my DT with the water pump, I don't think I want the engine under the cab with out a tilt, which I don't want to mess with on this truck. Anyway, I will have plenty of room up front to rework the suspension if needed. Radiator will get slid back and tilted to fit height wise too.

 

Oh my word.
I have been researching the same question and narrowing is a game changer!
My question in this answer is how does track width factor into gvwr?
It's not just a factor of holding the weight off of the ground and stopping it safely, it's also a matter of stability, right? Overall vehicle dynamics?
I guess I ought to ask my little brother since he's actually a suspension/ch***is engineer at peterbuilt in Denton tx...

 

vintage56, Now you have opened up a can of worms!!!!!! LOL I always try to build my stuff with as low a center of gravity as possible, just because. I also don't plan on hauling high tipsy loads like logs and such, but I did choose a rear suspension that has a high roll center so the trailer swaying around behind me, doesn't roll steer me too much. That is about all the thought I put into it.

 

vintage, as far as I am concerned the original ch***is had a gvw of well over 20k as well so if I narrow the newer axle to match I will be fine. There is a difference once you get alot heavier, but if you are not planning on doing anything that requires a cdl, I wouldn't worry about it.

If you plan to build a 13+ ft tall RV body and put a ton of weight on top, then a ft wider track would make a big difference in stability I think. I am leaving the rear axle full width so I won't be losing anything there.

Another thing to consider is tire capacity, I would guess that the tires you put on the truck would have more to do with the stability and control than the track width in the front (again, to a point)

It would be nice to hear what your brother thinks about it.

 

I've shot little bro an e-mail.
His wife just had a baby last week so I'm sure he's playing catchup at the office this week and is inundated. I will report back from the pro though.
My concept is to build an oversized toyhauler that can haul my '56 F-100 over the back axle and have home away from home ahead of that.
I've been tail-heavy on a car hauler behind a 1/2 ton pickup a couple times and don't want to experiment with the same dynamics with multiples of the weight!!!
I've also read a horror story of weekend warriors piling into their one ton truck, tugging their toybox rv, loaded with gear and atvs for a recreational outing, then finding themselves facing vehicular manslaughter charges after they lose control of their rig in the mountain roads, root cause being they were loaded in excess the gvwr of their truck...
From what little I can find to read on the topic, it sure seems like you run out of gvwr pretty quick with modern truck/trailer weights. And considering I want to build my own setup (truck and trailer), I'm overthinking things in true-to-me fashion.
So far, I only have the cabover sheet metal sitting on a hacked up mid 90s one ton ch***is. I HAVE to find a donor drivetrain and the retired school buses with International 466 and 444's and Allison's have caught my eye, but the front track width... as can be seen in my avatar, I want to tuck tires with the help of airbags too... rolling on 19.5 or 22.5s.
Not at all wanting to hijack the thread here to make it about my project, but I think we're thinking along the same lines?
To bring it back to topic, I will also ask Brother if he knows of an axle reference.
JML

 

I just got back from visiting my oldest uncle who was a ***mins mechanic for some 35+ years. I asked him about narrowing an axle to which he replied "sure! I never did one 'cause I'm a $#!++¥ welder but yeah I've seen em done" He was a captive audience tonight as he is currently in the hospital. I'm gonna try to visit him again soon when not so many people are there. I'm afraid my time of learning from the old man is drawing very short.

 

I understand, you want to make sure you have enough truck under you as I do. I have a 41 dodge going together that will be 1 ton dually suspension, 16" wheels. It is much better than a 1/2ton, but it is not going to be a 26k puller for sure. That is partly why I am putting the 55 together, I was given the bus and drove it home and the same friend gave me the 55, he was going to do it and ran out of motivation and time. After really looking at the IH ch***is, which is 26k gvw, air brake, 10 lug 20" wheels.... It is a huge jump in component size from the 1 ton.

The frame itself is much bigger in cross section and is made of stronger material. If you pay attention to bigger truck frames, they usually have a don't drill or cut sticker on them, they are engineered for a certain amount of flex and strength. The axles are of course monstrous compared to a 14 bolt of dana 60/70/80. I don't remember the diameter of the ring gear on either of them, but the difference is multiple inches. THe front axle is app twice the size in cross section as the one under my 40 1.5ton chevy, the one under the 55 is not much bigger than the 40's.
Front springs are twice as wide, 4" on the IH vs 2" on the chevy.
Brake shoe size is also much bigger, I'll have to get a sq inch comparison once I get them apart.

I had a 91 Chevy 66 p*** school bus that we converted to an rv, we were able to put a regular pickup tag on it which in KS is 12,000lb. THe bus weighed 9800 before we added all the stuff, so when I pulled the trailer, we were over the tag limit. The bus ch***is was 25,900 gvw though so it was up to the task no problem. It was a hyd brake disc all the way around, had an auto and was easy to drive for anyone. It was amazing the difference pulling the 22ft car trailer loaded vs my pickups, it was very hard to tell the trailer and truck was back there at app 7500 lbs. Not the case with the pickups, it pulls great, but you definately know it's back there.

As for stability on your rig, I would add sway bars front and back and there are certain types of rear suspension that counteract the sway better than others. Also the stiffness of a box body helps control the frame flex as well, so depending on your rv body, if you build it stiff, it can help stabilize the sway.

Another thought, Steve mentioned the NPR's, there are gobs of them running around with big boxes on the back and all kinds of weird taller stuff and they seem to be a stable platform even though narrower than the bigger trucks.
Rough measurements for mine, I need to narrow the axle 14 inches.

How wide is your truck? It may not be much different.

As too engines, the DT466 is alot more motor than the 444, package is not as nice trying to stuff it under something, but better long run in my opinion. An 8.3 ***mins with the allison would be as good as the 466 and they are common in the buses.
Pay attention to wheel bolt pattern too, some are not as common and getting nice wheels could be hard unless buying brand new.

I spent a couple hours at a big truck salvage this morning, pretty cool comparing all the stuff. Wish I had more money to play with.

 

vintage 56, why don't you start a build thread, (maybe pre-build thread) so we don't get too far off topic on this one. It sounds like you and I are headed in the same direction, so of course, I've got ideas for you.

 

Agreed, wc-Steve. Will do that next.

Mcgyver, I forget the width off the top of my head, though I have measured and then tried online searching for axle widths. But being a '56 ford, I'd bet it's extremely close to your 55 lcf in dimensions.

 

The axle under my 57 LCF is a 2003 GMC w4500 (same as NPR). It was extreemly close to the same width of the original axle and it had the same 6 bolt pattern. I did change the studs to american threads.

 

Been busy. Hate how getting old seems to make things wear out... Had my oldest uncle in the hospital for a heart attack, then my mom goes and gets a cancer diagnosis. Her surgery brought little brother into town and I quizzed him on the axle reference. He said he didn't know of one publicly available. He said as soon as he caught a breather at work, he'd try to relay some info they use.