I need some help please, I purchased this old Plymouth for my son and I cant seem to get the car started no matter what I try. I have spark to the coil points and plugs, if I pour a little gas in the carb it will not start. I have replaced plugs, points, condensor, & cap. The car has a 217 single barrel carb. just an old flat head 6 that I would hate to part with. According to the Book it states there are 2 setting for the plugs I had them at .35 now I will try the other which is .28, Can one of you Gentlemen please help with some advice on what I can check or do to get ol Bel breathin again?
Air. Spark. Fuel. You should be getting at least a cough or a fart out of the engine, even if the timing is 'way off. Go back over the basics and see what you did wrong. Good luck.
See that Dodge in my avatar. I had the same problem when I first tried to get her going. Remember one thing. These are a six volt system vehicles. I replaced everything like you did and could not get that thing to fire up. Just out of ideas, and looking for some dumb luck, I replaced the new plug wires again using regular wire wound plug wires instead of the resistor type (which is most probably what you have installed.) That's all I did was change the plug wires. When I hit the key she fired right up and ran sweet. I'm thinking with those resistor wires, and going through a six volt system, there was just not enough spark going to the plugs to make it fire up. Solid wire installed and problem was cured. Worked for me....
FWIW, don't forget that those are positive ground....and trust me, if you hook em' up with a negative ground....they will almost start...don't ask how I know!
If the engine has not been tampered with, the rotor should be at 7 o'clock when #1 is at TDC. Compression stroke. Above #6 cylinder is a npt pipe plug. Removing this gives you acces to the top of the piston of #6 with a stiff piece of wire. Insert a wire (makes sure ita about 8 inches long, remove the plugs and turn the engine over by hand until you can ascertain that #6 is at TDC. If the timing marks align with 0 (TDC) on the crank pulley, then #1 is at TDC compression. If the timing marks do not align, continue to rotate the engine till they do and #6 again shows top of stroke. (By the way 54 was the tear Plymouth got the 230 over the 218. measuring the stroke with the wire will tell you which it is, 4 3/8 =218, 4 5/8 = 230.) With #1 at TDC ***ure the rotor is at 7 o'clock, then align the #1 spark plug wire according to the firing order in the cap tower that aligns with #1. ( If the motor has been tampered with this align ment might not be factory correct but by establishing #1 TDC and aligning the plug wires to what ever rotor position might exist. The Distributer is run from a slotted tang from the oil pump, not a gear. If the pump was replaced or other wise messed with the alignment of the tang may not be factory if the oil pump indexing has been fooled with) The distributor can be in correctly ofr 180 off. But based on the oil pump it may not align with the factory 7 oclock position. If this is the case identify where umber one is and go from there. When I installed my rebuilt motor I was sure everything was correct, the engine would crank but not fire except for an occasional back fire through the carb. Following the above procedure I found that I had installed the wires one correctly, but one position off in the disributor cap. And the simplist of all, did you get the correct cap for the distributer? MOPAR used several different but interchangeable distributers, several have unique parts such as caps and rotors. These parts must be replaced according to the individual distributor part number. The umber is stamped on the info plate on the side of the dist. Should start with 1AT or 1AG or similar. Make sure the cap and rotor are the correct ones for what ever dist you have. I hope all this has not confused you.
Try the narrowest setting on the plugs until you get it started. That way you will overcome weak spark if that is your problem. I'll bet that you are not getting much compression, your cylinder walls may be dry. Dump a little motor oil in each cylinder then try it again.
Wait a minute. Did this car run when you bought it? ...then you changed some parts & now it won't start. Is this the case here?
You need to check compression first, then the distributor as was mentioned. If all checks out, then spray some starter fluid in the carb and try. I have a stubborn Lincoln that wants the starter fluid when cold.
I want to thank all of you for the great advice and when I get off work tomorrow I will be back to work on the car. By the way when I got the car it did not start. I am trying to get it going .
Thanks for the information. I am by no means any type of mechanic just a dad trying to do for his son. You mention that the car is a 6 volt system a friend of mine had told I could rum a 12 volt battery just had to install a shoot I forget what it's called it's a ceramic block about 2" long with 2 prongs to run the wore from the centerloid to the coil. So that is what I did . Have I done anything wrong? I would appreciate your advice. By the way that is a nice ride.
I am no real mechanic but I know enough to get by certain situations. That ceramic block is call a resister and Chrysler cars do use them on their 12 volt systems. That being said and going back to the idea that I know enough to get by situations may I suggest you do this. Go back to the original way the car was wired. If you added anything from the original way, omit it. Now make sure you haven't burned out the points, coil, or condenser by hooking up to 12 volt. Hook it back up to a 6 volt system again. If all is OK make sure you have solid wires, not the resistor type, and see what happens. It may sound silly but you should have seen the look on my face when my Dodge fired right up after that switch. And I was trying for days to get it started and it just would not fire up. All I did was switch those wires.....By the way the car is now completely switched to a 12 volt system and running an alternator and all has been well ever since ....
You can get a loaner compression checker at most auto parts stores. With spark you ought to get at least a backfire or a pop. Maybe the valves are stuck. Those are motors can usually start and run when badly worn
OK, then you need to start from square one as written above. Do a dry compression test, then wet compression test. That'll tell you whether to check more. Without compression, nothing else is worth checking/changing/adjusting.
Again thank you all for the great advice. can someone tell me where I can purchase the right type of spark plug wires for this car seems like all the local auto parts want to sell me the same type I had purchased and I want to make sure I get the right ones.
I purchased mine through "Andy Bernbaum Mopar parts". He's on the net. Go to the site and you will ,see his catalog. Find your particular vehicle and parts and give him a call.
Before spending more money, have you checked the resistance on the original wires to determine if they need replacing? If they are truly bad then check the parts house for a wire set intended for a forklift, combine or other such industrial flathead. Mopar sold millions of L6 for use in multiple applications.
I have worked on a few of these old Mopar sixes and have always managed to get them running, even one that was off the roads for 30 years. You have got good advice so far. One thing, if you check the piston position of #6 use a screwdriver or if you use a wire bend a T handle at the top. You DO NOT want to drop anything down into the cylinder and it is easy to do. Try a compression test, first dry and then after squirting 2 or 3 shots of oil in each cylinder with an oil can. You need at least 90PSI to run. Perfect compression is about 120PSI, they are low compression engines. Ideally you should get a 6 volt battery, you will need one if you are going to drive it. But for starting purposes a 12 volt will do, I have started and run these engines on a 12v battery with no problems. First be sure everything electric is turned off, radio, lights, wipers, etc etc. Take out the dome light or turn it off (there may be a switch on the door post, or turn the light switch all the way to the left) Put the battery in "backwards" = positive ground Do not leave the ignition turned on and do not grind and grind the starter or it will overheat. If it starts and runs, you can run it for half an hour before the coil overheats. Suggest you do not run it more than 10 to 20 minutes. This is plenty of time to blow out the cobwebs, warm up the motor and even move the car around. One odd problem I ran into, a car had a resistor in the coil wire. I don't know if it was stock or added. But, the coil would fire a few times then pooh out after a minute. So I put on a new coil wire and it ran great. I used a resistor wire on the coil, this is a good idea for radio suppression even if the other wires are solid core. Get it firing on #1 on the compression stroke, and then be very careful about the firing order when you put the wires on. #3 and #4 are easy to mix up. Hope this helps, come back if you have any more questions One other thing, wheel bolts are left hand thread on the left side of the car, right hand thread on the right side. You need to be careful, sometimes they have been changed to right hand, or the front hubs exchanged, but that is the rule.
How long has it been off the road? If more than a couple of months DO NOT use the old gas. It could gum up your motor for good. Disconnect the fuel line and use a motorboat gas tank or gas can. You can check the gas tank later, if it smells like gas ok, if it smells like old stinky varnish you must replace the tank or clean it, but replacing it is easier and cheaper.
I've run regular wires and resistor wires on mine & it worked Ok, but those resistor wires are fragile, and they frequently crack the conductor right where it is crimped to the terminals. I've pulled brand new sets of wires from the box and found some cracked at the crimp. You don't need resistor wires except to reduce noise on the radio.
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