So I have quite a bit of rust on the struts connecting the body to the frame on my 52' merc. I wondering how easy or hard it would be to repair it myself or how much it would cost for someone to repair it. Thanks
If you have to ask, you aren't prepared to tackle this. This is going to be advanced fabrication to re-create the rotten bits & pieces, or you'll need the kind of donor car that goes for big $, because the bits that rust on yours rusted on most all of them.
You're probably right. Do you happen to have any idea something like this would cost to repair? Or is it easy to learn. I do have welding experience just not in this specific area.
first see if you can buy replacement parts, if you can't then you'll have to make them. It's not particularly difficult, but it takes some practice, and a bit of equipment. You'll need to buy/make inner rocker panels, and probably some more stuff too....first thing is to explore how bad the rust is, and how much of the car you'll have to replace. That means get everything out of the inside of the car so you can inspect the floors, look at the bottoms of the doors carefully, etc. Poke something sharp into suspect areas of the sheet metal, if it goes thru then you need to replace the metal.
I'll be as honest as possible. It's going to cost you at least as much as it would be to buy a completed one that's on for sale completed and painted. You have 3 choices. 1. Sell what you have and buy a completed car. 2. Take it to a shop after exhaustive research on their quality of work, cost, time to finish. Sign a big check and visit the shop frequently to observe their work and make sure it's coming together like you want. If you think it's going to be like Fast and Loud or Overhaulin' you are not ready for that decision. 3. Buy what you need and start working. Be prepared for your budget and time to at least increase by a factor of 3 until you are proficient at working it. You probably won't be happy with the results for a long time but you will learn a lot and at least know how good or bad it is to yourself. The cheapest and least painful of these I think would be option 1. The other option is just get out of the car rebuilding hobby, which would be much less expensive.
Hi ....Go and have some tution on sheet metal fab..its not that hard..theres probally less than $20 worth of 16-18g sheet steel in the repairs....just a bit of time....remember its a hobby......
I'm not sure I agree with you on this,we learn by asking questions,especially if we are trying something we are unsure of..learning a new skill is just part of building hot rods & customs. That type of rust is typical here in the Southland and although it looks bad if you have never tackled it with the right tools it's really not that difficult if you are willing to learn something new. A tape measure,some poster board and you can make simple templates and then transfer them to metal. Get a zip wheel and cut the rusty metal out. Access to a sheet metal break makes it easier but a vice and a couple of pieces of angle iron and a big hammer will work in a pinch for fabrication small pieces like braces,you will need a brake for rockers but I believe they are being reproduced by ems. What's the worse that can happen,you might learn something. It doesn't have to be perfect,all you want to do is make the car solid again..BTW,when looking for this type of structural sheet metal 52-54 Ford should be close. HRP
You may want to search some of the build threads to see how others have made replacement parts. If you already know how to weld it may just be a matter of time and patience. My Wagon build has been a "giant shop cl*** project", learning skills for future cars. Starting with a car that needed a lot it will mostly be your time (lots of it) and you will learn a lot. edit, i like HRP's reply better than mine.
Hey, HRP, I didn't say folks couldn't learn it. We all did. I just said the OP was unprepared to do the work. The training requires an investment in time, and a little blood and skin will be donated as well. Also the sheet metal could come from junked cars and cost practically nil, but the tools & supplies to do this work require an investment. I don't know about you but I've been buying tools for 45 years and I still don't have everything I need. Don't get me wrong: this is a wonderful hobby and I love it & I love to see new folks come into it. But it isn't easy and it isn't cheap. The novice should be informed up front, before ever touching a wrench--or preferably before buying a car which requires $10,000 in body work just to prepare it to paint.
52 -56 ford floor pieces are supposed to be similar. they are available from a couple of sources here is one http://cgfordparts.com/wwwsectionfiles/cg_cat1_patch_panels_floor_pans.html#Floor Pan Braces Basic cutting, welding and fitting skills along with basic welding and cutting tools are all that is needed. There are several build threads here that will help, use your search function. good luck
If I understand what I am looking at, that looks like something that could be replaced by thin wall rectangular tubing and 16/18ga sheet metal to me. Measure it out and make templates out of poster board like HRP suggested. If you don't know how already, learn how to weld and get a good machine that you know how to use and use well. Or figure out if you know someone who can do it for you or teach you how on their gear.
looking at the photos there is most likely way more rust than what you see right now. I sure would not want to be in the position of finding a shop that could fix that. the ones that can do it right are few and far between, the ones that will take your money and do a **** job are many. welding experience is good, but what you need is fabrication experience if you want to do it yourself.
The smarter & more experienced you are, the less you'll need. But I wouldn't restore that body myself unless I was in love with the car. You know the whole thing is sagging out of shape due to the body mounts being rusted away, and the frame is probably going to be so rusty inside as to be weak. It's one thing to weld on some patches and make the body strong again. It's a totally different thing to get it all square and straight again.
If you are into cars(especially OLD cars), you must have some friends or aquaintances that can help you do this( and you CAN do it).Figure out if it's worth saving for starters.HRP's got the right idea- If there's enough left that's solid, formulate a plan of attack.It may take some time to get the project finished, but it'll happen if you take the first step.Ask lots of questions, and question lots of answers.You will learn by doing, and if you screw up, that's a lesson that you won't soon forget.Stay away from people who approach a problem in a negative fashion(" That'll never work" -" Forget it! This thing's junk!")Hang with the positive thinking and it's all possible.I do the garage thing for satisfaction and mental therapy-if it starts going out of control, I walk away and take a break ( it's better than screaming and throwing tools around!)No time limit, no finish line; it's supposed to be FUN. Good luck with it whatever your decision. Mike from M***. This is a coupe that I'm going to try and save-more holes than metal!
Based on some of the pitiful rust buckets I see the pro guys on the HAMB rebuilding, it's probably worth saving to somebody. You just gotta figure out if that person is you. As I said, "If you're in love..." 'cause with love all things are possible. But it sure helps to have a MIG and lots of patience. BTW, we'd enjoy some more photos of the whole car.
This area is super common to rust out on the 52-54 Fords and Mercurys, and it's the first place to go. My own '52 had rust out on both sides of the inner rockers and all 8 of the body mount supports like you have pictured, yet the rest of the car was fairly solid. So I'm not sold on the idea that the car is going to be rotted beyond repair in other areas. Its possible, but it's also possible that this is the worst of it and the rest of the car is sound, as was the case of my '52. There are replacement pieces available, but for me, I just made all of my own, as I've heard the new ones fit poorly (although I've never used them so that might be ********). As for the cost of repair, I know it took me 23 hours start to finish to repair both of my inner fenders and all 8 body mount supports. It's solid, fully welded and looks pretty stock but it's not to restoration/Riddler quality either, I didn't see the point in getting too carried away with it. So if you figure my shop rate is $50/hr at 23 hours that would be $1150 to have me (or any decent restoration shop that can do this kind of work) to fix it. Here's some pics of my car before. My frame is super clean and my floors are all original other than a patch that had been put in by the driver's feet, yet there was this much rust to the inner fenders and body mounts. Here's some pics with my patch pieces made and just tacked into place. They would all be fully welded by the time I was done but I took pics at this stage to show all the pieces I had to make. Honestly, I don't know if pre-made replacement pieces would have saved much if any time. And here it is all done, fully welded with paint and seam sealer. I got kinda heavy handed with the sealer but again, I didn't need it to be ultra-pretty but I did need it to be sealed up tight to keep it from going bad again.
You need to determine what condition it really is in. Pull the seats and carpet off the floor, and smack the floor with a hammer! If the metal is good, it will dent, if its bad, the hammer will blow through. Personally, I use the pointed end on a heavy duty pick hammer, and I hit it pretty hard! Hammer it until you find floor metal that will dent, then you will know exactly what needs to be replaced. In 10 minutes you will know how big the job is going to be. You have to get to steel that will dent before you will have steel you can weld too. If the metal looks questionable, hit it! I know this sounds crude, and your wondering what kind of a quack I am, but I've been replacing rusty floors and rusty body structure for 20 years. This is the fastest and most accurate method of determining what is good sheet metal and what is bad that i have found. Once it is determined what needs to be replaced, picture your car body as a series of boxes (rectangles or triangles) used for structure with formed sheet metal (floor pans, body panels) connecting the boxes, and this ***embly bolts onto your frame. The boxes have to be structurally sound with any rotted out sections repaired before the sheet metal can be replaced or added. The formed sheet metal generally is spot welded to the boxes, and often needs to be removed before the boxes can be repaired. The sheet metal is replaced after the boxes are repaired. The condition and placement of the boxes and the formed sheet metal determines how the bolted on components (doors, fenders) fit in final ***embly. The project you are considering taking on will require repairing or replacing those boxes, and getting them in the correct location. Then you will be replacing the formed sheet metal (which you may have to form). It can be like eating a big elephant, I suggest you take it one small section (one bite) at a time. Its time consuming, dirty, noisy and painful (plan on donating some blood to the project), and the end results are a huge eagle booster (though few others will know what you have done). You will need a welder, an ***ortment of vice grips, something to cut sheet metal (18 gauge sheet metal is is ***** to cut with tinsnips), a method of forming metal (vice, angle iron, a good solid work bench, hammers, a sheet metal brake) a drill and good bits, grinders capable of getting into tight places, an air compressor, cut off tool, and air chisel help a bunch, some fire prevention, and personal burn prevention. There is a lot more, but that will get you started. Gene
Here's the way we went about it. It's a slow process, but very doable http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/53-ford-ranchwagon-woodie.816780/page-3
lets clarify 52-54 mercury's and there similarity to 52-4 fords,, these parts from 52-4 ford will fit same years mercury, front floors in stock rear floor future prodcution toe boards in stock rocker panels in stock door bottoms future productions floor braces ( body mounts) coming soon other area' are unique to mercury , front clip, rear 1/4 panel, tailpan the ems guy www.emsautomotive.com
I want to say thanks to all you guys first off and ya I'm good friends with James white from circle city hot rods an she's my first car so believe me she's worth saving I've already invested blood and skin into it. The frame and body are in great shape it's just those two body mounts. The car came with factory under coating so there's almost no rust aside from those two areas and the floors are perfect.
Nice picture (post #25)- that car is worth the work for sure.Anyone tells you different, you talkin' to the wrong guy!! GO FOR IT! ( and keep posting pictures) Post #20 from "Squablow" puts it all on the table- great pictures, and a great effort to show how it's done!! A tip o' the hat to that man! Mike from M***.
Looks like it's time for you to get going on the repair job...and don't be afraid to get some "real time" help from the HAMB as you're doing it.
Believe me I am no pro but where there is a will there is a way....HRP LOOK THRU SOME OF THE PHOTOS HERE OF OUR '54 FORD. '54 Ranch Wagon build photos
Well she sure looks better from the top side. Based on the underside photos, I was afraid of what it would be like overall, but if it's really just those 2 mounts you got lucky. I'm not sure where you live, Mercomatic, but I'd think that kind of work commands about $75 an hour around these parts of California, (The local Caddy shop in Fresno was getting $75/hr 15 years ago...) So I'd surely budget more money If you're hiring someone.
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