Since I just got one for free....I saw the car last year briefly, and tonight the guy said that I could have it. It has the original running gear intact, condition unknown, but complete. It's in a yard and has been forever. Pretty straight, relatively rust free. I'm not sure exactly what to do with it at this point, but since it's not a runner, I'd like to gut it, throw a roll bar in it and lo-buck drag it for kicks, really. Based on what I've just poked around and learned, it's a Corsair two-door sedan. Should have the 410 in it....what parts will interchange with the rest of the FE family? I'm not up on my FE stuff... Are these motors any good to build, and how is the trans? What kind of rearend is under there, and is it a good one? What are these cars weaknesses? It needs glass, as someone has felt the need to shatter most of it. Are windows fairly easy to come by, and where would I find them? Lastly, thanks for any info or advice, and as usual, if anyone has pics of one of these beasts, I'd like to see them.
410 is an MEL engine, not the FE, so speed parts are gonna be harder and more expensive to find. you can get alot of torque out of the engines, and alot of HP, but not so much on the RPMS, according to a recent HAMB post. the trans will be either a manual or an electric push-button "teletouch" unit. this can be cantankerous, still figuring my buddy's out. gearing is somewhere in highway to AIRPLANE range, at least it is on his. but, i am pretty sure it has a ford 9" in it, so ya got that goin for ya. if the corsair is the bigger of the edsels, it will be based on a mercury chassis, i think. brakes might be weird. if i remember on my buddy's car, it used both mercury and ford parts in the chassis, or maybe even brakes. the smaller cars, like the pacer (what he has) are supposed to be ford based. GOOD LUCK on the glass. it can cost as much as a decent project edsel, according to the dude my pal bought his from. there are alot of edsel nuts out there that could help. just don't tell them you want to drag the heavy SOB! if ya have any questions, ask little_E on here, and especially if you want to gut it and get rid of anything from it, i bet he'd be interested.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference in an FE and a MEL? What parts interchange, intakes and stuff like that? it's got the automatic buttons on the steering wheel deal... I read the 410 is supposed to have a lot of torque and 10.5:1 compression... quote: there are alot of edsel nuts out there that could help. just don't tell them you want to drag the heavy SOB! If I swiss cheese and gut it, I think I can get it down to a svelt 3800lbs. It's pretty far gone to act like it's a crime to hack up, yet too nice to scrap...It would need everything to make into a resto type car. It's been sitting in a junkyard with the windows smashed for years. The panels are pretty straight, no major damage, but a lot of the hoopty trim and doo-dads are gone or weathered. But a stripped drag car/gasser would be fairly easy, and to my advantage, it was free...
yes the 410 did have 10.5 compression,along with 345 h.p ,BUT!!, it had 475 ft. lbs of torque. i know they did have 2-4 barrel manifolds for them,but don't know if they interchange with any other ford motor co. engine.that's about all i've read on this engine.good luck
LITTLE bits and pieces might interchange, like hardware, some bearings MAYBE but i know heads and intake won't. valve covers actually cover an inch or so of the area on the intake of an FE, not the case on the MEL, 99% sure. pretty much two totally different engines.
I had a '58 Citation 15yrs ago & that had the E475 410 in it too, the car was real nice but the motor was pretty tired but still had gobs of torque, i looked into basic rebuild parts at the time & gave up....though its prob easier now with the internet! but i do remember the only motor that was simular was the Lincoln/Mercury 430 of the same year, not to be confused with Ford's other 430 of later yrs. Probably your best advise would be to junk the motor & trans in favour of another torque monster like a Cad 500i, can be picked up for reasonable money & the speed parts are available.......& if you have the $$ 600-700 hp on pump gas is not out of the question. Kev.
The '58 models had A LOT of Edsel-specific hardware, that isn't shared with Ford or Mercury. For '59, they toned that down a bit. Read this site for info.
Fitty-eight Edsels were Ford's hen's tooth when it came to powertrain development. The big motors are unique to the Edsel ONLY, and feature the goofiest combustion chamber architecture ever developed for a modern OHV motor. They machined the heads DEAD NUTS FLAT - no chamber whatsoever - and then machined the block with a 10 degree angle relative to the piston crown. The resultant is a wedged combustion chamber that is PART OF THE BLOCK, not the head. Edsels are fairly scarce to start with; finding the high-end OEM speedparts is gonna be harder still. You wanna go fast inna fitty-eight? Get the biggest damned motor you can find - a Ford 460 or better yet, a caddy 472 or 500, and slap on a fogger 200 shot of nitrous. If it blows - at least you had fun doin' it!
Hey Kev , I had a '58 Citation too ! Yours wasn't VVS325 in blue/white was it , difficult to see in your pic ...
i always thought edsels were cool. ill never forget the 1st one i saw - pee wee's big adventure. anyone ever try using the drop top as a parachute like they did in the movie?
Dad had two Citations (2dr and 4dr hartops) when I was about 10... Had a bitch of a time with the power brake/master cylinder, Treadle-vac(sp?). Rust under the headlights on all of them, and the tail light lenses are expensive. Should be a 9" under it.
Wow, I guess it was sitting in the yard for a reason. Thanks for all of the input. I have access to other motors, but it would be cool to hop up the original one with at least a dual quad set-up. It be a month or two before i can get to it and look it over really good and see if any rods are hanging out of the bottom or if it's seized. The back window is what really has me concerned...it's been smashed out. I wonder how hard it would be to make one out of plexi-glass for a wrap-around deal?
No mine was all white & the reg was DSU 278 bought it from L&P but it was imported by Real Steel & they shipped it over here from Littlerock! Just to re-cap on the Lincoln/Mercury 430 from '58 was the only other engine the that some parts the same, as i said "simular" if i remember right it was some gaskets & lower end bearings but hell its a long time ago! ;-) Kev.
Mine is white with powder blue coves and roof.... I also just scored a 50's Chevy truck axle...I'm thinking early gasser stance!
I just looked on www.kanter.com & they pretty much list the same parts as they did years ago! FORD, LINCOLN, MERCURY ,EDSEL V8 1958-68 383, 410 (1958 only), 430, 462 BMD Overhaul gasket set $140 BMD Piston (Note 54)(8) $40ea BMD Ring set (exc Edsel 410/475) $96 BMD Ring set, Edsel 410/475 $125 BMD Main bearing set $125 BMD Rod bearing (8) $12ea Connecting rod (exch only) $30ea BMD Cam bearing set $35 BMD Timing chain $20 BMD Cam gear $45 BMD Crank gear $35 Cam shaft (58-60 exchange only) (61-68 core deposit $75) $200 D Push rod (16) $5ea MD Rocker arm (16) $12ea Rocker shaft $60ea Rocker arm assembly (exch or add $50 deposit) $195ea BMD Valve lifter (16) $6ea D Intake (8) valve $20ea D Exhaust (8) valve $22ea D Valve guide (16) $3ea D Valve spring (16) $8ea MD Oil pump 58-60 $75 MD Oil pump 61-68 $66 B Oil pump kit $45 Basic overhaul kit 383,410,430,462 (Note 75) B $895 (Basic Kit include all items with B) Master overhaul kit 383,410,430,462 (Note 75) M $1090 (Master Kit include all items with M) Deluxe overhaul kit 383,410,430,462 (Note 75) D $1415 (Deluxe Kit include all items with D)
Do the valve covers say E475 or E375? If it is the bigger number it is the 410 MEL. The smaller number makes it a 361 FE.
Other way round on mine Hemi , ugly old beast , much like myself . Mine had a 429 with a C6 box , and was on (badly) juiced suspension . Handled like a drunk pig on rollerskates . Managed an indicated 120 mph once , took 3 miles to hit that , and needed 3 lanes to keep it straight ! Good luck dragging it
Yes, E400 and E475 were the two engines. Corsair/Citations did have the 410 as standard equipment. As was already posted www.edsel.com is the BEST resource I can find on the subject, period. As for the glass, ChromedRAT mentioned the cost of it. I bought my 4dr Pacer from a guy near Dayton and he said a collector offered him $1000 just for the windshield (we bought the whole car for $1500). If you get into any Edsel circles, I'd keep the idea of a dragsterm mums. They are pretty much purists on the matter and any customization is rarely seen as acceptable. Talked to a couple with a 59 they had blown and tubbed and everything and they said there's no way they take it to Edsel specific shows. Good luck with parts and stuff. Dad rebuilt the engine (E400) in ours before I knew shit from Shinola and I do know that to get 40over, flattop pistons he had to custom order them from a place in CA and ran him well over a cool grand I believe. Kanters has been a life saver for me on many occasions trying to find parts, especially motor mounts. If you call them call a guy named John at ext. 375. He's incredilbe and the only person who actually took the time to dig through old catalogs to find my motor mounts. The Corsair/Citation were supposed to be based off of the Mercury frame so most chasis/suspension parts were supposed to be interchangable with 58Mercs. ChromedRat refered to my problem with brake parts . . . all of the shoes, and hardware and everything I believe was standard 58 Ford (as it is supposed to be with pacer/rangers) but there is a cable that levers the adjuster to keep the shoes adjusting out and I had to get the cable for Mercuty, I dont' know why, but it was the right length for what I took off the car. What is the VIN number on the dataplate inside the driver's side door near the firewall? You can get a lot of valuable information from that on the Edsel Resigtry at Edsel.com. Ummm, I think that sums up all I wanted to point out, I'm sure I'll chime back in before this thread is gone and forgotten. Little_E
Oh yeah!!! Where did you get this picture??? Is this something off of the web, or one you've actually seen?!?!?!?!!? This is a VERY VERY rare Edsel wagon that was converted into an ambulance. I think I've heard where there was only a couple of these made, I'm talking like less than 6!!! If you know where this is, get a price, i"m loading up the truck and I'm on my way!!!
Maybe that's what I'll call it, "The Drunken Pig" haha! I was thinking of naming it "Big Ugly" after another vehicle I owned. I'll have to check the valve covers...I seem to remember them being pretty scaly and the Holley carb was gone but the aircleaner was still there. So were the belts and hoses and stuff like that. It's currently in a private junkyard, and when I was there, I was trying to look at everything, I didn't get a chance to study it real hard. I wold have paid more attention if I figured I'd own it one day. Glass, I think is going to be the biggie, anyone know of a yard that has any Corsairs?
I found it on the Edsel site, here: http://www.edsel.com/pages/special.htm It's being restored and is not for sale, but if I ever run across another one, I'll let you know. I also found these neat ones:
What is the VIN number on the dataplate inside the driver's side door near the firewall? You can get a lot of valuable information from that on the Edsel Resigtry at Edsel.com. Little_E[/QUOTE] Thanks for the info, I will get the tag and see what I can find. I'm pretty excited about it...should make an interesting car.
Not true, Merc, Edsel and Lincolnl all had MEL's in 58. MEL stands for the 3 car names in case you didnt pick up on it. The TBird missed out until 59. The 430 Lincoln was the HP/TQ leader with 375/490 unless you got the super rare Mercury Marauder with trips. Uncle Scooby is making log intakes as well as finned valve covers for MEL's. Plenty of cam grinders can still do them. A machine shop that can handle the 348/409 Chevy W can do the MEL since they share similar head & block designs requiring a special setup jig/plate. Ive been doing some research on the MEL as I picked up a 65K 58 Lincoln 430 this past summer. Was going to put a 460/C6 in a 49 F3 but thats too boring; the MEL has my attention for now.
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