I'm wondering if there are any good internal upgrades for the early Ford transmissions for strength. I have a 1959 Car Craft magazine that had a pickup with an early Ford transmission and T-bird gears but did not go into detail. I have more Car Craft magazines on the way so maybe they'll help. Otherwise I would be looking to replace that transmission with a top-shift like the 1937 LaSalle. I've looked into T-5s but I'm not sure if it will be best suited for me. So far engine choices are Nailhead, Y-block or small block Ford. Thanks.
Might find an answer over on Ford Barn...I saw an article that talked about later trans [post 49] gears that could swap into early cases for more strength and better shifting...
I also know about Zephyr gears but have heard they don't actually add any strength. I thought of doing something more extreme like a T-56 or NV4500 but that seems like a gamble in case it won't fit well.
Lincoln Zephyr cluster and 1st gear slider if there are any still around. The rarity today may make expense not worth it. The 3 speed w/o syncro 1st just isn't much fun. I'd estimate that the Zephyrs are good up to mid -200 ft-lbs.
I am asking more toward the period-correct but other options can apply as well. I just don't think T-5s and T-56s would apply in this forum. I've been trying to do research on '50s hot rod stuff because I'm debating going with a Nailhead or Y-block. Even a '60s small block Ford might end up with a more hot rod transmission. The transmission seems to be one of the biggest parts of this chassis. I can figure out the engine and rear end but I'm trying to learn more about the manual transmission choices I could use.
I understand period correct....but if you are stuck with 50's or earlier manual transmissions, you really have narrowed the field and sacrificed driveability and dollars. I guess a Borg Warner T-10 (Corvettes, etc) might be best option for $ However consider the cost of adapting to your engine selection....SBC or SBF options make it easy
Or not....while I appreciate modern 'advances', some of us actually enjoy the technology of our grandparents...
How's about a 4spd toploader, I've just mated one to my nailhead by making an adaptor between the box and my transdapt adaptor which was originally designed to mate up to a chev box.. Damn strong box and when you add a T176 top out of a jeep the stick basically comes out where an original 3 spd ford one would.. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I am using a 48' T98 trans case and main shaft with T19 gears. The T19 comes with either a 4:1 or 5:1 first gear that is synchroed. I am using the 4:1 in mine. The main shaft needs a snap ring grove cut into it to hold the 1st gear synchro but otherwise the T98, T18, and T19 are all in the same trans family. I am putting this behind a flat head so that is why I started with a asT98 that came from behind a flat head. You could just use a T19 out of a Jeep, International, or Ford and adapt it up to your engine. The T98, T18, T19 all are truck trans and are very strong. My 66 3/4 ton crewcab came with a T18 from the factory, it now has over 500,000 miles on it and has never been rebuilt. Having a 4:1 first and a 1:1 direct is about the same gear spread as an overdrive trans has. You just need to raise your rear end ratio to compensate for it. Jim Ford
another option could be a Borg Warner T-85, heavy duty 3 speed from a GM car. A $200 adapter kit from Speedway will allow it to be bolted to the ford flatmotor and the T-85 is definetely old school. I pulled one out of a 59 Pontiac ambulance and my buddy has one [original equiptment] in his 57 GMC. They require an aftermatket shifter or operate it with a column shifter. You get extra points if you use one with an overdrive.
I'll look into the T-18 and T-85 transmissions. Novak adapters has a ton of good information on those. I'm not sure if I could use a side-shift transmission due to the x-rails on my '33 frame and the pickup cab wouldn't be able to use a shifter that far back, but I haven't seen any information on that. Another idea I had was to use a '41-'48 column and convert the pickup to a column shift. I'd like to use an overdrive transmission but I don't know if the solenoid would clear the x-rails.
You could look into using the early Lincoln overdrive like Doane Spencer did. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/early-lincoln-v12-overdrive-transmission-id-help.935729/ That would be easier if you convert to column shift. The solenoid may hang below the X-member.
I forgot about the x-rails being so narrow. My frame will be getting the outer rails replaced but the guy doing the job wants to retain as much of the other original parts of the frame as he can. It might be more beneficial for me to use Chassis Engineering's x-rails instead.
About 10 years ago I picked up a transmission for a friend at the Big Three Swap Meet from a local builder in the San Diego area. It had been built using some of the newer gears you are talking about. You might check the local rebuilders in San Diego and see what you can find. Charlie Stephens
I'm going to be the desenting vote here..... I just love early Ford three speed boxes and have used them in the last dozen or so cars I've built, (my own cars, not clients). They just "feel" right! I routinely go on fairly long runs, when I actually have one of my own on the road, and reliability is just fine on both the trans and banjo rears as long as they are built well. Nothing looks better or just screams "hot rod" like an early box. I don't baby them, you just need to drive them and race them a bit differently than a Muncie. Back in the day, they were the trans of choice in front of narrowed banjos and huge, many times blown, Hemis, Olds, Caddys, etc. Skinny bias plys are a necessity. There are several folks on here who will attest to having their asses trimmed by some of old creations and with the right rear end gearing you're golden. It's just a matter of what you like to drive. Personally, I don't care for my rod to feel like a Camaro. Just me.... I'm putting another in back of a very hot 324 Olds, aluminum flywheel and 10 1/2" clutch, with a banjo in my tub. I think the early boxes sometimes get a bad rap because back in the day they rarely were actually gone through., They are so easy to change and were so cheap it was OK to just blow one up and go to the junkyard and get another with huge miles on it and just swap it. My Dad ran these at the drags for years and if there was a problem it was usually a clutch, not the trans or rear. I feel the later guts, '46-48 have a much better quality than the earlier parts and go into any '78 case. I'd like to hear what some of the other old timers on here think.
Endplay, and also excess play where upper shafts meet, are critical; endplay allows violent axial movement under engagement, slop up in top center translates into poor synchro engagement. There is a good chassis engineering how-to on tech for Ford trans in 2-gear dragster use circa 1962, I'll try to dig up info on that. For drag use, just as is done for 9 inch Fords nowadays, street gears are too hard, and the srticle includes detail on new heat treat...probably not a good idea for non-maniacal street use, but interesting. Ford based running gear made it into the early 1960's for very fast drag cars, with the transmissions going out of use considerably before Halibrand-Ford rears went out of use somewhere beyond the 180 MPH barrier. This is for LIGHT cars only, early roadsters and dragsters. For HEAVY cars like full size 1940's stuff, the move to first Cadillac trans then eventually Olds-Pontiac rears came earlier!
Good stuff right there. Thanks for posting that Seb. And coupling a sbf to a forties/fifties era trans makes even less sense than putting Olds valve covers on your sbc. If you want to use a sbf, then do do it properly, period correct sixties era build, and use a ford t-10. Trying to pretend that a sbf is "fifties" is "ol skool" bs.
Bruce, I'd love to see that article on using the Ford stuff in the early drag cars...... [QUOTE="Bruce Lancaster, post: 10536664 There is a good chassis engineering how-to on tech for Ford trans in 2-gear dragster use circa 1962, I'll try to dig up info on that.
I think it is hidden under my desk. Will try to excavate...if you don't hear from me, the mine done collapsed...
I'll look into that thread on the Ford Barn, thanks for the replies. I have a few more '50s Car Craft magazines on the way. It seems just about everything had an early Ford toploader in it. I just don't want to have problems with that transmission if it won't hold up to the engine very well.
The book I referred to: New Hot Rod Handbook, Griffith Borgeson, seems to have been in print 1960-1963 at least so may show various years in the old book listings. Fawcett-Arco, I think Arco is just the school library imprint of Fawcett, book #719* which is generally called out in listings. All these Fawcett hot rod books by Borgeson, Jaderquist, and friends contain a lot of neat racecar stuff. Article is based on a Chassis Research build of their over-the-counter dragster transmission, often used with 1-R gear stuff left out. The first part of the conversion, the softening and re-heat treating of the gears, should probably be considered drag only, just like the modern soft gears sold for drag 9-inch rear ends. The process is interesting, though: Gears are first copper plated (like some early Ford steering gears and cams) to exclude carbon infiltration of the surface. Gears are annealed to relieve stress, then heat treated to 35-40 Rockwell C with case hardening excluded by the copper. The surface hardening is the enemy for drag use, since if it cracks or flakes the problem shoots on through the gear. Next, the interesting stuff for us'ns: Trans case is cad plated, a fairly cheap neat idea for cleanliness. The center area of upper shaft where center bearing and synchro live is dealt with. Entire setup is assembled outside of the transmission and squeezed together between lathe centers to close up any slop in center. Assembly is measured between the inner faces of the bearing snap-rings (which seat against case and locate the whole mess in use) and then the case is measured from front to back on the surfaces where these rings seat. The difference between your two measurements is your enemy... (Parenthetical thoughts, for the impoverished rodder without a lathe or strong wife to squeeze the assembly, and most especially without giant micrometers or high grade calipers: Try this IN the case with rear snap ring left off. Scrutinize the distance the empty snap ring groove goes into the case. Do the same at final assembly to be realdamnsure slop has been exterminated.) CR attacks the gap by machining rear surface of case to needed depth, with .080 as maximum cut. If your gigantic milling machine is out for repairs, try moving the innards forward from rear bearing by installing extra rear slingers. Note, in relation to my parenthetical thoughts, that the U-joint squeezes all this stuff together at final assembly, which MIGHT open up the center gap, so maybe do trial assembly with FRONT snap ring missing to see if front assembly goes in too far and so reveals gap. My thoughts, not CR's, as they apparently own lots of neat measuring and cutting toys! Anyway, slop here would be subtracted from synchro function and would weaken the support function of that cether roller bearing. End bearings...replace stockers with tighter New Departure ND306 front, ND477508...anyone out there have bearing info to see if equivalents still exist?? and if possible cluster cage bearings get replaced with Torringtons, no numbers suggested. Cluster...kill off all end play at the thrust washers. I assume this would be done by shimming on the non-moving sides of the stockers. Clearance is entirely eliminated and allowed to find its own clearance in use! The extra slop in case is a result of the very substantial axial thrust power from all the spiral cut gears...long use actually bulges out the case. This has another issue important in this discussion is that if there is axial play in anything with spiral gears, that play is taken up instantly and potentially very violently when power is applied...this shock force is a source of transmission breakage in use! That's my quick summary...now go and find the book. The very next article is history and tech on quick-changes! A kicker: The article notes that you can get the whole trans ready to go for $76.80 outright from CR...! I hope availability and price haven't changed since 1960...and be sure to tell them to leave in first and reverse on yours! *Fawcett imprint number of same book in paperback may be 451.
Great info Bruce! I might add, I occasionally use Ford kingpin shims to bring my cluster into tolerance, front to rear. They are a bit sloppy on the shaft but still work. The first choice is to use a thicker thrust washer and dress it to proper thickness on a pice of plate glass with some 600 grit paper and WD40. I have saved a few marginal cases this way. Obviously, first choice is to use a decent case which is getting tougher every day. I do like the idea of cad plating the case!
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