Technical Anyone Using This Combo ?

Being brand new to H.A.M.B., I am not certain if I have posted this thread correctly.
I have a 1951 Chevy StyleLine Deluxe.
It has a '61 235, bored .080, dual Rochester carbs on a Fenton intake, 3/4 Patricks cam, with Fenton dual exhaust.
Engine mount is under harmonic balancer.
12 volt electrical with alternator.
It has a Ford 9" rear, with a 3:50 posi.
****** is CURRENTLY a 6 cylinder, 1959 Chevy 3 speed manual, with functioning overdrive. ****** is mounted on a Walton crossmember.
I have just had a knee operation, I am needing to consider an automatic ****** .... possibly a 350 or 700.
I understand an adapter from the 235 to auto ****** is available from Buffalo or Langdon.
Please understand I know NOTHING about either ******. Too new for me and my service manuals. I would like to keep away from any computer controlled ******.
A friend has suggested a ****** prior to 1986 will be non computer controlled. Is that accurate ?
FIRST; Finding a kickdown cable ...... is there a kit available that allows a factory or aftermarket cable to work with the Fenton dual carb linkage?
SECOND; Once the standard bell housing is removed, the factory bell housing side mount stabilizer mounts are gone, as well. How have you adapted the stabilizer mounts to the auto ******?
Anyone using a 235, with dual carbs ... with a 350 or 700 in a 1951 Chevy.... let me know what you have done to make this all compatible in your ride.
Thanks,
Bob.

 

The 2004R has a good ratio spread and is smaller/lighter than the 700R4 and has less internal friction....therefore absorbs less horsepower. That is something to consider with a smaller displacement engine.

The "TV" cable aka Throttle Pressure cable, is critical in it's adjustment on 2004R, 700R4 and Ford AOD automatics. Incorrect travel can fry a ****** in short order. I would be surprised if an off the shelf bracket/carb arm is available for your setup, but surely could be fabricated for it. The geometry of the ***embly is important. The cable has to move at a certain rate for the transmission to function correctly. There are diagrams available from various sources on the web that explain/illustrate that. Try Bowler Transmissions for one example.

You are wise to consider the 'mid mounts', as it is a loooong way fron the front of the 235 to the back of the trans. Again, bracket can be fabricated to attach to the trans bellhousing to engine block/adapter to retain or replace the existing mounts..

Ray

 

The 61 engine should have provisions for side mounts on the block, you might see about fabricating mounts so the trans is mounted at the back, and the engine in the middle of the block, kind of like all chevy cars used starting in 1958.

Computer controlled shifting for GM transmissions started in the early 90s. So any 80s transmission would not be computer controlled shifting. Although the 80s transmissions have lockup torque converter, which was controlled by either the computer or a few simple switches, and can be handled internally by doing a relatively simple rewiring/switch replacement inside the bottom of the trans.

 

Yes, the geometry is important. A cooked ****** would be a big price to pay for an improperly adjusted cable. Thus my reason for asking if someone has this combo in operation.
The other thought is the modification to the valve body, allowing the constant full pressure, but that system , without the TV cable, also has drawbacks (manual shifting).
I will look at Bowler and appreciate the lead to them.
Being that the car in discussion here was all finished with its 3 speed O.D., I would like to keep the swap as basic as possible, but we honestly know basic can mean much more than basic.
Thanks for your insight, Ray.
Bob.

 

I do not have this car stored here, do not recall what the side block configuration is, for the mounts.
The lockup was another concern I forgot to mention, but your info on the rewiring sounds like it could readily be done, without a disaster.
The stability of the mounts is so important, so is the TV cable setup.
I'm hoping someone jumps in and tells me this conversion is being used successfully, but time will tell.
Had I not had this knee issue crop up, this conversion would not be on the table.
I have to work with what I am given.
Something will work, thanks for taking the time.
Bob.

 

guys to ask is bowtie overdrives they have the ******s and most setups for the tv cable lots of info also nice people.

 

Thanks for the info, will contact them.

 

Another approach for me to keep driving.
Another member has told me I should consider a 350 or 400 ****** because they do not have a TV cable, thereby eliminating the linkage / cable problem with the dual carb linkage.
If this is feasible, will the physical size of the 350 or 400 fit in the ****** tunnel, without hacking it up?
Anyone out there with a 235 / 350 or 400 combo in a 49 to 51?

 

The 350 would probably fit the best. It has a kickdown cable, but the adjustment is not critical...it just needs to be tugged about the last 1/4" of throttle travel. And you can get by with not connecting it, although that could shorten transmission life just a little bit. A th400 is way overkill for that car.

With any of these transmissions, proper rear end gearing is important for the best driving experience.

Also if you want to really go old time, you could install a cast iron powerglide. Its the original automatic transmission used behind the Six in 50s Chevy cars. They changed over the years, and they also were made to fit behind the V8, but you'd need one from behind a Six because they are different. No special expensive adapter required.

 

Thanks for the info Jim. The rear end ratio is 3:50 posi in a Ford 9". There were thoughts of a V8 back when, thus the 9".

 

Squirrel's suggestion about an older Powerglide is worth considering. Since you have a '59 Manual trans, and '58 thru '62 were shorter output shafts, and did have tail housing mounts, a '58/'62 Powerglide would be pretty much a 'bolt-in' as long as you got all the pieces from a donor car. Your current driveshaft should be correct length.

They are fairly rugged for normal driving conditions. And, your rear end ratio, 3.50, is right on target for the stock PG cars, which typically were 3.55. However, that said, the 3.50 is okay for an OD automatic as well. Heck, the OD ratio in your manual shift is within a cat's whisker of the OD ratio of a 2004R.

 

Yeah, I KNEW that and was THINKING it as I was typing and yet........I 'blew it'...damn embarr***ing! I got focused on X frame Chevys....and....well......

editing my 'typo'........

 

I hear you ! I "think" and "know" I'm going to the bathroom, but I end up in the kitchen !

 

Another bolt-in is the '55 up Chev or GMC 6 cylinder dual range hydro, as you already have an open driveshaft. Getting pricey, but we love 'em ...

 

Just hearing that Dual Range Hydro going through the gears sets me off. Just so very cool. Thanks !

 

Lotsa power loss, but it kinda makes up for it with an in the dirt 1st gear, it'd be my choice for a cruiser, especially for the traditional aspect

 

I 'am running a '89' 700r4 with a 235,3/4 race cam dual carbs(carters).the geo. for the tv cable is very important went through three or four versions of throttle setup till I got it dialed in

 

Not a dual carb 235 but the setup could be the same in your '51 I believe. This is a 700R4 behind a 292. Found a pair of bolts that let me mount a modified factory TV cable bracket in line with the accelerator arm at the firewall. It's been a while but I seem to remember you need ~1.75" of cable travel from idle to WOT (check that to make sure). Added a tab to the top of the arm and mounted a standard ball end stud. I used the longest after market TV cable I could find and probably could have gone with a shorter one which might look nicer. It's no show car, just my commuter.

 

From so many years ago, I will always remember that 1st gear launch. In and out of 1st gear, as fast as you could say "1st gear".

 

show car or not, it works and I appreciate the time and pics. I keep hearing how critical the TV cables are on the 200 and 700 ..... would it be less of a h***le to go with a 350? The type of ****** is not the most important thing for me. Not using a clutch is the most important issue for me and my knee.

 

Joe, you are the first one to have the same combo as I'm considering. As I have said, the TYPE of ****** is less important . The most important thing is having no clutch to push. Would you think a 350 would be less of a h***le? No TV cable on a 350? Not certain of that answer, from my point of view?

 

A 350 turbo would be a good choice, just non-OD is all. It does have a 'kick down' cable that serves to both hold it in gear longer before up shift when floored and will downshift trans when briskly accelerated at lower/moderate speeds. Very simple cable to hook up.

While the need for accuracy setting up the TV cable on OD automatics has been stressed in many posts, don't be intimidated by it. It's not that it is so hard to do, but rather it is just important it be done correctly.

 

I appreciate your input and believe the 350 would be more user friendly. This car is a cruiser, but must have it be dependable.
It was a close friends car, a frame off restoration and all modifications done by him. Much detail in his work. He drove it 229 miles, after completion, then p***ed away, after a long bout with cancer. It is now in my care. The 200 and the 700 "setup" is, in fact, intimidating, for a screw up there is money down the drain in the ******. I have been told, because of the linkage for the dual carbs, that the setup would be difficult.

 

a 350 ****** would not be as difficult as a 700r or 200.I on the hand embarked on the course of 700r due to fact I had one and also a 350 ****** back up if my ideas left me flat on my face.as I said in my previous post that this combination took me three or four tries to complete and a whole lot of math and frustration.Sooo to each his own poison.

 

if you do go the 350 ****** route there is a person on the stovebolt forum whose handle is Village Idiot,she did the 350 turbo to 235.she also has a facebook page with photo of the process and sure she can answer questions that come up and also any tips.

 

If by 'Cruiser', you mean using it mostly around town, only occasional highway use, then the OD feature of the 200/700 would not be utilized much anyway. They require about 40/45 mph to engage OD, so act more like a 3 speed than 4 speed in urban driving.

The 350's are plentiful, relatively inexpensive to rebuild, should it be necessary, and are extremely dependable. If you were starting from scratch on this car, I'd recommend a 'taller' (lower numeric) rear axle ratio, such as 3.00, plus or minus a little. However, since you already have the 3.50 in place, there is little to be gained by changing it. And, it will provide spirited acceleration!

Sorry to learn that your friend p***ed away before he had time to enjoy his own handiwork. Sounds like a nice car, and one that you are privileged to possess.

 

Joe,

One question comes to mind here. Looking at your pics ..... from a closed throttle position to a WOT position, how far, in length, does the TV cable travel?
Your thoughts and input are truly appreciated. I will have to search out Village Idiot to see her post. You did say "she" , correct?

 

Ray, cruiser to me means car shows, Interstate travel, a fun ride, but not a daily driver. The 350 seems to be the easiest way to go, from the idea of not getting something messed up with the TV cable on the 200 or 700.

I received an email from Tom Langdon and in that email, he has a chart of the different ******s available for the 235, the gear ratios ... plus Tom's overall grading (A, B, C, D) of each ****** application. I would like to post it for you folks to see ( interesting ), but I rate my posting abilities exactly the same as setting up the 200 or 700 TV cable.

I am able to post pics and charts and whatever to email addresses, but the chart and the pics of this '51 would have to go through someone elses email address to ever get here on line, because I would not be able to do it on my own.

Certainly I am not trying to sound overbearing, when speaking of this '51. There are many memories ***ociated to the car PLUS I was so proud to see his final product, regarding the mechanics, the attention to detail, the overall look of a factory application. No "cobble work" to be seen. A place for everything and everything in its' place, so to speak.

I am proud to be the new caretaker, that sums it up, I would say.

Sorry for rambling on. :-(

Bob.

 

. Here you go..........

 

Bob, you shouldn't be intimidated by the setup for either of the overdrives. If I can do it, anyone can do it. You just need to pay attention to details which are widely available on line, or can be provided by any "quality" (as in owner/operator, been there 30+ years) transmission shop. Once it's set up you never have to touch it again. And your 235/3.50:1 combo now will cruise at 75mph and get 14-15 mpg instead of topping out at 65 mph and only seeing 11-12 mpg on a good day.
You don't list a location on your profile but odds are there is a HAMB'r within 30 miles of you that would love to see your '51 and would gladly help you figure out the TV cable adaption for your linkage. the HAMB is a wonderful place.