Old Car VINs...is it true or urban legend?

I have always heard that in the very early days they put an engine block number on your title as the VIN..as time passed they realized that if you ever changed out your engine block your VIN numbers wouldn't match, so they started putting the VIN somewhere else. Is this true? if so, when was this year that they started? or have they always had a VIN number somewhere else on the car? its like here in Texas, I've always heard that in 1961 a building in Huntsville burned down and took all DPS/DMV records. Thats why so many old car VINs come up "dead file"

 

Its true that they were once stamped on the engine only. Im not sure what year that changed.

 

I have some old titles that say "47 engine, 39 chassis" and shit like that. Basically, the title number stayed with the engine when the engine was swapped into the car. The car had to be retitled after an engine swap.

I sold a title for a '40 Plymouth that said "51 engine 40 chassis" to a guy on the HAMB who is building a '40 Plymouth with a 331 Hemi in it too. Worked out pretty good.

 

My 60 Buick has the engine number for the VIN. So it happened till at least 1960.

 

On the 1953 Ford trucks, the VIN was on a plate riveted (or maybe screwed) to the glove box door. My '55 panel had the plate screwed and it looked original.

In the movie Hot Rod (with the kid and the '41 Willys) the kid replaces the blown up engine and a cop (who knows the engine has been replaced) checks the block and is surprised to find the correct VIN. In a previous scene you see the kid and the town's old mechanic changing the VIN on the block.

Tracy

 

Some reason Ford put 2 vins on the trucks.
One on the firewall and one in the glove box.
I have had three 51 f1's all had 2 vins.
Well the frame was stamped to but IM talking about the plates.

 

My model a is screwed too, but thats another story I've been told by old timers that the engine number was the id for the car and Iam lookin at a title for my car that I have not had transferd yet its dated june 53 and the only id on it is the engine #.

 

up here in washington state all cars have vin #'s. if it comes into state without one they will give it one following inspection. after 10 years? of a car not being registered for the road the put it into the archives to save computer space. if you find one that has been sitting you call dmv, give them a few days and they will reactivate it.

 

My 1937 Studebaker has a VIN other than the engine number.
It is the production number of the vehicle.
Mine is 1934 of the 3000+ that were produced.
This number is posted three times on the truck.
Once on the load tag inside the passenger kick panel.
Once on the tag on the frame behind the front wheel.
And it is stamped on the lower face of the frame below the drivers seat.
Sometimes Studebaker went a little overboard.

 

My '53 Buick's VIN is the engine number...

 

In the good old days of the Flathead Ford, serial numbers were assigned to engines as they were finished at the Rouge engine plant. At the assembly plant those numbers were copied (by a guy with a hammer and a set of stamps) onto the car frame-usually in two different places. Over the years folks got to believing that the only place the number appeared was on the engine and from there a lot of confusion developed as to what was the correct number for the car since a lot of engines got replaced. State BMVs were inconsistent in their understand and policies regarding this issue and I would guess that some titles were erroneously renumbered because nobody knew to look for the original number on the frame. I think most, if not all, G.M.s had the number on a tag somewhere on the body as well as on the frame and theirs was a vehicle number-not an engine serial number.

 

Yah, for instance: 1967 Bronco. 1 VIN on drivers door tag, 1 VIN on left front frame horn/top flange and 1 hidden on top of right frame under body where passengers feet set. It requires a mirror. It exposed a lot of stolen Broncos...heh

 

29 ford frame carries the vin. might be elsewhere as well.

 

In Canada Ford had the serial on the engine of 1925 and older Model T's, then switched to the engine and frame of 1926-27 fords. Then for some reason, 1928-31 used engine numbers only again and none on the frame. Starting in 1932 Ford had them on the frame only up until 1941 when they started using a tag on the firewall. Pat.

 

In Texas they didn't have titles til about 1941 and used motor numbers until about 1956 and then started using vin numbers. You were supposed to go to the courthouse to report an engine change to keep your title numbers correct on cars that used the engine number.

 

It varies from state to state. Washington generally used engine numbers up through 1954 and then went to VIN in 1955 with some exceptions. Early on, cars (esp Fords) had an engine number that matched the frame number, but the frame numbers on A's is tough to find and T's only had engine numbers, so the easiest place to get a number was on the engine. This is esp. tough for GM and Chrysler because the real VIN doesn't show up anywhere on the paperwork or the frame, so after the original engine is changed, there is no verifiable VIN. We've been fighting this for years up here, and in parts of Oregon too, although they seemed to go to VIN earlier than Washington did.

 

This is all very interesting, stuff I've wondred about. I have a 58 Plymouth that is titled, no problem there. But I'm missing the vin tag that was on the door pillar. I'm not sure if that's a big deal or not. I don't know if than vin appears anywhere else on the car. I love the car so I bought it knowing the tag was missing. Is this a big deal?

Buckle

 

Veddy interesting...I've never seen the title on my 39 Chevrolet, my Dad has it somewhere as it used to be his car..I'll ask him, I'm guessing that since I changed the engine out the numbers won't match....

 

Only if you move to another state or sell it to someone in another state where an out of state inspection will need to be done. Otherwise, in state should just have to be a title transfer, often without having to see the vehicle.

 

In my youth, in California, cosmic cowboys drove old 4WD Pickups, mine was a 57 Dodge Powerwagon. I was out boonie bouncing one day, and wedged the old truck between two trees so badly that I destroyed the drivers side door. I went to a junkyard and bought another door and swapped them out, stupidly throwing away the old door and its original VIN tag..I get back to Texas and it comes time to swap my trucks paperwork from Cal. to Tex. numbers don't match, I'm sent to DPS and have my story and my truck inspected by a trooper..they issue me a little red number plate for me to screw to my truck door and a new title...learned a lesson..I'm lucky the donor truck wasn't stolen or some such crap...

 

definitely true the engine number used to be a VIN, not sure that is the reason they started stamping the frame though. My Model A motor has been swapped, so no longer matches my title number (still a four cylinder though), and the Nevada DMV put a tag on my car to prove it was actually the one from the title. It came from Washington state

 

On my old Triumphs, 54 TR2, 57 TR3, the Ca. Titles use the engine number as the VIN. I have copies of the build records for both cars showing the engine nos. and chassis nos. for both cars so I can tie the two together. Some people I know have had their titles change to show the chassis no. but it is a hassle.

 

The engine serial number on the flat six in my '53 Mopar is the same as the VIN number on the title and registration. There's a serial number on the driver's door post above the hinges that I believe to be the production number of the car. I had a '62 Savoy years ago that had the engine number on the registration but I changed out engines. Went to the SC HIghway Dept (now called DMV), they had me do a rubbing on paper with a pencil on the number on the door post which then became the new VIN number for the car on the title and registration. Hope they still do that as simply as I'm planning to replace the flathead with a little more power.
I think it was in the late fifties and early sixties that the states changed over from engine VIN's to body mounted VIN's.

 

I've seen old NY registrations with both the chassis and engine number on them.

 

Model T's began having number on both engine and frame (same number and called "motor number") during the 1926 model year:

Acc. 94. Walter Fishleigh files, Ford Archives
"Motor number was first placed on frame side member R.H. on Dec. 12, 1925. Motor No. 12,861,044. Information obtained from Mr. Burns, Final Assy., Highland Park."

 

Where's the chassis number on a 54 savoy ?


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

We had a couple 56 plymouths that had the vehicle number stamped on the side of the frame, I think on the driver side, behind the axle. Look and see if you can find it.

 

Ford stamped numbers on the frame as far back as the T. But a lot of states registered by engine number and many manufacturers didn't have a "Vin tag" on the body until the mid '50s.

There is or was a lot of goofy stuff that went on when titling a car. My mom for instance had a 'new '65 Buick that she purchased in '66 cheap off the lot because it was last years model. State of California registered it and titled it as a '66 because that was when it was purchased and titled. A lot of states did that.

Now here is a good urban legend for ya, that I know for a fact that it is true. Early (pre july) 1962 Chevy Belair from the Fairfax plant (KC, Kansas) may or may not have a vin tag. my friend and now retired neighbor took over the assembly line as line manager in July of that year because too many we leaving the plant without vin tags. I can't even count the '62 belairs I passed on for that reason not knowing the truth about it.

 

seven year old thread, guys....

 

Why don't you ask that question on a NEW thread, instead of dragging up an unrelated, seven year old thread?

Rich