Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

In a very real sense, the H.A.M.B. is the last bastion of pre-'64 period correctness. The mods don't always enforce it as carefully as I'd like, but the overwhelming trend is to exclude technology which emerged after that date while at the same time embracing the techniques that were used in earlier years.

It does my heart good when H.A.M.B.ers rise to the defense of our own little period-correct niche for whatever their personal reasons. The mods can't do it all. There are street rod forums for those who embrace modern technology - and modern taste. Some of us own street rods and other OT vehicles but we don't bring 'em here. I like that.

 

Damn! I leave you guys alone for 24 hours and mayhem erupts!!!

I think to a very large extent we are all after the same thing, the quest of traditional cars and de-uglifying these cars, and maybe bringing a bit of "legitimacy" back to the breed that has been lost over the years. Let's keep the discussion to mid sixties and earlier, please, and no, I don't pretend to have all the answers. Never will. I'm just a research junkie of many years standing and can only report on what I see as the "truth". I have no problem with anybody disputing my ideas, I just ask that you back it in some form with pictures. I like to think that if indeed all 15-20 of us or so following this were crammed in my little shop, that the disputes would be disputed with laughs and smiles as most are in life. Remember, we are all after the same goal....

Now, I also apologize for my lack of forward progress the last couple of months, too. I thought long and hard before I started this thread with such lofty goals, as I know how my world works. There are times when I just can't get stuff done on my cars to save my life simply because the bills have to get paid. I honestly thought this thread would sink to the bottom about 15 minutes after I started it for lack of attention, so imagine my surprise with the shear amount the we have all put into it over the last year. The season is here in Arizona, the cars are coming out of the woodwork after the long hot summer, so things will slow a bit for me soon and I can devote more time to going forward with this car.

Now, for the immediate, today I have to get this beast back up and running, right after I punch another 100 louvers or so for a customer that is restoring a beautiful Airstream trailer. With my electronic module DOA, and a custom order kinda deal, I'm going back to points as I have another YC type distributor that has never run and has them ready to go. I also have tried a different way of mounting the coil, and a good tip or two about coils that you may or may not know. I'll get this thing up and rolling again, and post some pictures up tonight.

 

A few of us have been here from fairly early on. The subject is great as is a lot of the other stuff. It's possible to learn and enjoy what's going on with the 6os style T buckets without actually owning or building one.
Doing your own thing is basically what you and every other hot rodder does, just in a different fashion.
Building what I like is what I'm up to.
Hanging out here and following along and offering an opinion now and then along with the learning is what everyone who has posted here has done.
Like anything else some opinions are popular ,others less so.
I think what we don't need is statements like "we don't need you"
Sounds like the spoiled kid on the field saying "I'm taking my bat and ball home if you don't want to play my way"
Taking yourself far too seriously will put a big damper on your day.
Learn, contribute a small bit and carry on

 

Hang in there George, your into the good stuff.I think there is still more than a few who "get it". I've been a hot rod outcast my whole life; hell I'm always catching shit for my habits of unpolished mags,narrow stripes,stagger heads,4spds instead of 5spds ,and a host of other old shit. I know I'm stuck in the past...but I'm good with it.

 

No. I'm never telling you or anybody else to "Go away, we don't need your input". I respect what you are building Blue One, and I'll tell you it's one of the few cars that solidly refutes my "I can see a stretched "T" body from outer space" theory. Your craftsmanship is always welcome here, even if your car doesn't quite fit the direct ideals of this thread. I hope you know that.

We do have to kind of turn this thread a bit though, and the only way that is going to happen is by my getting out in the shop and working a bit on MY stuff instead of customer stuff. I'm working on it now as we speak...

 

I feel for ya', Chip. I have experienced two ignition failures which resulted from ignition module or internal coil failures, one a Pertronix module, the other the coil supplied in a low-budget-offshore-made-no-brand HEI. Unless you've got a spare you are SOL. Call AAA for a tow.

I've rebuilt the HEI with all USA parts and carry a spare set in the trunk. The HEI can be rebuilt by the side of the road with only a couple of screwdrivers so I feel like that problem is solved.

The Coupester, on the other hand, has an electronic ignition conversion of one flavor or another. Doesn't matter. I've learned not to trust pointless conversions to any great degree and plan to pull it out and replace it with a plain-Jane GM points-style distributor. I might not get all the fantastic benefits of a pointless conversion (if there are any, which I seriously doubt) but I've never been left stranded by the side of the road due to an unfixable failure of the points to operate. I'll take dependability and repairability over questionable performance benefits on a street car any old time.

 

I thought about posting a pic of Irv Ross' car, but the last time I posted period photos, Larry felt the irrepressible need to tell us what bullshit all that period-correct stuff is, and I'll puke if I have to hear that again, so I'll adapt the rule I follow outside of this thread, and keep my own council...

 

Well you know, not many guys get this. When I fell hard for "that" style of cars, they were HATED by mainstream street rodders. In the mid-seventies, a channelled car with a rolled rear pan and cycle fenders was about THE UNCOOLEST thing you could be into, next to Olds fiestas or Lancer caps. Guys though it was just bizarre that anyone wanted any part of that out-dated crap. My daily bullshit threshold has been exceeded already, and thats when I usually snap. A wise man knows his limitations, I'm gonna go read some old magazines...

 

Gee thanks Chip. I ( we) are looking forward to your next moves.
This thread continues to be a good one.

 

C'mon now ,George

At the risk of beating something to death or going too far or whatever, I did not feel an irrepressible need to post.

And I didn't say any of it was bullshit, those are your own words. Perception is something else isn't it. You heard something I really didn't say.

The pictures you posted were great and I enjoyed them.

My point was that period correctness could vary depending on where you lived or what your influences were.

Period correctness is great for the guys who want to achieve it. I just don't care to be that fussy.

I'm just having fun creating something I like.

 

Irv Ross's car, even though it's not a T-Bucket is a damn neat thing, it's open engined, open wheeled, and has a lot of period detail that in MY opinion is VERY welcome here. I don't want to keep changing rules, but there are certain cars that contribute to this thread even if they aren't strictly what we are talking about.

 

I have to stop and make it clear that the ignition conversion in my distributor was NOT the problem here! Pertronix puts out a damn high quality unit that I have put in damn near everything I have owned since that fate full day back in '89 or '90, when I spent my first day in a dyno cell with my first monumental VW engine and found almost 16 more H.P. and 1000 more RPMs over what was then the best point systems in the market. I have put literally hundreds of thousands of miles on them since without incident.

Two things kill these units, and known or not, both are caused by the installer. First is using the wrong coil. Too heavy an out put and you're done. Smoke city. The other is installation that doesn't take into account all the stuff that moves in a distributor. This almost always results in one of the wires becoming damaged, going to ground and the Genie is released.

No, in my case, it was grabbing the non-resisted MSD coil off of the Plymouth (which has the full line MSD box, dist, coil, wires, rev limiter, retard adjustment, all carrying enough amps that I could weld with it if I had to!) and plunking it "temporarily" into the 'Bucket's system. I should have just drove it home and been happy it wasn't stranded, BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I had to go out and run around knowing stuff wasn't right. Just damn glad I didn't drive it half way across the state before I killed it as I was intending to do.

 

Gentlemen: I submit "Why this a great thread!" ^^^

 

Okay gang! Well, it's back up and running, though not very well. It dawned on me that it has been the better part of 25 years or so since I set up and tuned a points type ignition. I have forgotten all that I knew about them.

For instance, what plug gap to run? I'm sure I'm at about .045 now, and I think I remember about .025.... I set both pairs of points at .016, pretty sure that's the right number. Timing is close, so I'm good there. I'm not sure of the condenser in this deal. It's N.O.S., as the Chrysler big block YC distributor that I just yanked all the guts out of had never been run. It hadn't been stored ideally, though. What's the symptoms of a bad condenser?

 

Hey guys I'm sorry, sometimes I take this shit too seriously. I see and have seen some really ugly rods in my day and some builders just don't get it and some really don't want to get it. I just want to get it across that their are rules, and no you don't have to follow them but if you don't their are consequences and ugly might be one of them. Although some have gone out and pushed the envelope and come up with some really kool shit. The point I'm trying to make is just get back and really look at what you are building and see it it all works or not. I don't want to see you run around in something ugly any more than you do.

 

Gary, with all due respect, you missed my point. I'm ALL for traditional and this thread. What I was saying is that the guys who can't do it, shouldn't try to fake it or justify it with lame excuses or circumstances or misunderstandings about "how it was".

Jeez..... guess I should have posted the short version. And the correct spelling of the slang to ignore is "DISSIN'".

Is THIS back on track enough?

 

Plugs are usually at .035 for a points style ignition.


jerry

 

Or..... how about THIS ride?

 

All day long.

 

Pretty traditional except he is driving on the wrong side of the street.

I guess maybe Fred we are on the same page. Fake traditional is worse than not traditional. Sometimes I just just get fed up to here (my hand is just below my nose palm down) with guys that think their are no rules and just bolt together anything without any thought.

Chip I had an old-timer tell me to just set my points to the thickness of a matchbook. That gets it pretty close.

 

Chip a bad condenser indicates by hard starting and backfiring.
A side note I run Pertronix in my Falcon and my Roadster. Both are in Mallory dual point dizzys. Makes a great sano install and looks Old School!!!

 

Absolutely! Pretty sure I'm going back to Pertronix very soon! The damned thing ran great with as much coil as I could throw at it, until...

The thing that always killed me about point style ignitions was the slow steady erosion of running condition as the points went further and further out of adjustment. Point float in a couple of situations was a bitch too. This is kinda temporary, but I'll make it work.

 

Chip, this was posted on the HAMB by someone I can't recall. It must be pretty useful, because all my friends who use points, LOVED it. And this memo is from Mr. Mallory himself. Might be useful.

 

Health, Life, Finances permitting... I'm building a T... But it won't be traditional...

That's the last you'll hear about it from me here...

The only reason I bring it up is that it seems some might not think this thread offers anything to people like me. Ms Judy stories aside which I look forward to... This thread has taught me tons of history on the T. Another thing is proportions! Just how easy it is to throw off the look by something not placed right or sized wrong. I've also been very intrigued with the tops. To be honest, while I had an idea of what I thought I wanted, I started acquiring parts for a T before I had a clear picture of what I really wanted. Chip's thread has made that very clear to me... So, Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread...

Before I go back into my Lurking and Learning mode, I gotta say Chip and George... You guys have very good eyes at catching little things that slip past me in posted T pictures... After you point it out it jumps out at me...

 

And here I was thinking you were one of the few guys who takes it seriously enough...

Excellent stuff Fred, who knew that keeping your limited use hot rod on a trickle charge when its parked could benefit point life?

 

This is one of my favorite threads by far. I haven't been around much the last two months but read for almost two hours last night to catch up.

I'm all about traditional, but my T (my wife's, really) isn't completely traditional either. It's more along the lines of Larry's bitchin' project, but Larry's building his and I'm just helping build mine as time allows. That said, my T isn't completely appreciated by the "trad crowd" and I'm fine with that. And I know it also doesn't fit well in this thread.

Still, the car is built from mostly pre-60's Ford and Chevy parts but done with MY interpretation of what THIS hot rod should be. Just don't ask Chip about my grill shell choice, LOL.

 

I love points,they never left me walking like the Pentex n HEI ect. crap dose.
Really,ya have prob with point? come on,simple,yes I keep a extra con& point set along with a old can of nuts/bolts ect with my little tool box=if ya an't got that in your rod,I'm amayzed,just don't let points get crappy,and don't turn on with out starting the motor{if your going to test your lights or what ever like play radio=do that on ASS side,not IGN if motor an't running!!! ....or you'll over heat your points cuz your stupid! {thats just to get you remembering that!cuz now your smart!
Cleaning is as EZ as a nice white sheet of paper{will clean,and yes a matchbook cover is AOK to set them if ya don't have a dwell,

 

My favorite set-up is points triggering an MSD. The points dont carry any current so they last indefinately, and if the box packs it in ten minutes before you are called to the lanes for the semi's, you can by-pass the box in minutes and still answer the call. Best of both worlds.

 

Thanks Fred!

 

Dude! You ARE the reason I started this thread!!! I am the farthest thing from "every nut and bolt traditional", and to me part of the fun with this is being able to sneak later, affordable stuff into the mix without destroying the "vibe". But I got super tired of seeing people screw together these cars willy-nilly, and wanted to get folks THINKING about what they were doing when building a 'Bucket. It looks like that is taking hold a bit around here. These cars have such a cool history, and so much of it has been untold over the years because of what these cars became...

The other point I wanted make was, there are tons of these cars around that can be had inexpensively almost "done" or "done", that just simply need a lot of ugly cleaned off of them. Don't be embarrassed if the skills or equipment isn't there to do a full build for yourself, 'cause there are loads to chose from that can be much cooler than they were the first time around, and it might be a bunch cheaper, too. I keep an eye on Craig's List locally and see great deals all the time.

In short, THANK YOU for the compliment! Whether you do traditional or not, do cool! Oh, and if you do get into it while this thread is crankin' along, feel free to ask questions and drop in the stuff that DOES fit with the thread... We can all learn from each other.