Technical (Bought) Probably buying a 62 Falcon....

^^^^^ Yep, love that paint job!!

 

I'd keep the paint.

 

I have to admit that the paint job is starting to grow on me. Kind of considering painting the sides and leaving the roof/hood/trunk - then clearing the whole lot of it. For now, she'll stay funky.

Kid's birthday was last night so I didn't get to poke around much. I'll see if I can't get her to idle right with the current dizzy and carb - then start looking at the transmission.

Seems that with this early 170 I'll have two (maybe more) distinct challenges - distributor and bell housing are semi-custom/rare... wondering if I'd be whole cost ahead if I pulled the current motor/trans now and tossed in a good running 200 & 3 speed from a mustang (there's one from an AC car nearby that I think I could get fairly cheap - it's been listed at $500 for a month).

Door plate says:
Body - 58A
Color - M
Trim - 22
Date - 05A
Axle - 5
Trans - 3

Which tells me 2 speed fordomatic transmision, 3.5:1 axle

Thanks for the info! I'll post some more pics of her later.

 

If you can swing the 200, get it. You can put a 5-speed behind that, too.

The bellhousing is not rare.

You'd still need to change the distributor on the 200, but then it would be an off-t******lf item.

The 200 has both the 8-1/2" and 9" bellhousing patterns on it, so it will work with either.

You can still use the early Econoline bell, and an adapter, to put a T5 behind it.

All of the other 144/170 tricks work on the 200, too.

 

Yup, yup and yup!

 

View attachment 2769116 Got her to idle, but definitely needs a tune up and some carb/ timing adjustment. Because of finances, for now I think I'll spend the $30 for points, cap and rotor and then focus on the transmission (just finalized a divorce, and while money well spent, it hasn't been cheap).

So an econololine housing (which years?) will bolt up to the t5 without an adapter plate? Or will I still need an adapter? Will any t5 or just the ones from chevy trucks (I see they were used in mustangs a lot too).

I want to do this right, but cheap so I can get her on the road quickly (I don't want this to be a 3 year project that's not rolling).

****** is a one piece best I can tell, does that change the bolt pattern?

 

And ****** problems are: won't go much over 20 indicated, on braking, engine rpm will go way higher than stall should be (this is based on sound, not on numbers - no tach), and trans never did shift up - but that may be a function of speed... Not sure what the shift point would be for the 2 speed. Leaks quite a bit, level is low. To be honest, if I thought I could rebuild the ******, it'd get her moving for now....

 

Honestly, just about all those problems can be attributed to the distributor. They are a vacuum advance only deal, controlled by a valve in the carb which is tuned to the distributor. They were junk the day they left the factory, and with 50 years on it, it's no better. If someone has exchanged the carb at some point, it doesn't work as it probably has the wrong valve. I know money is tight, but anything you can do to get a distributor in that car that has an actual advance mechanism is gong to make it feel like a rocket ship come to earth. More Falcons have been parked over the years because of this problem I'm guessing than any other because of the unique ignition system. I honestly wouldn't waste new points and such on it.

 

The Mustang T5's are all geared very wrong for a Falcon-6. First will feel like second, or third.

In order to fit with the adapter and bellhousing, you MUST use a S10 T5, not from anything else.

The bellhousing part number is C3UA-6394-A. I believe that they are 1963-1966.

They can be regularly found on eBay. Post a want ad in the cl***ified ads here, too.

This bellhousing bolts directly to your engine, uses the same starter, and clutch fork as the stock Falcon one. Its difference is on the transmission side. There, it has the conventional Ford full-size p***enger car pattern. That is critical for the adapter fitment.

You will need a Ford to GM pilot bushing, but that is easy, and a Diesel Jeep, or Pontiac Sunbird clutch disc.

If you want to go the extra mile, with some simple machine shop work, you can run a Mercedes Benz 215mm pressure plate, from a 190E. Super easy pedal effort. More clamping pressure than stock. Still commonly available.

I run this setup daily.

 

What the bellhousing looks like:

 

There are a couple of things that do not appear to be "correct" for a 170 (a 144 would have had a blue head, black block, blue valve cover and air cleaner).

The fuel pump has the on-board filter, not a vacuum pump for the wipers.

Also, it does not have a road draft tube, but a PCV system. This could have been added later.

Look between the distributor and head:

That curve to the bottom left is the distributor cap. There is no head on this block.


If you find a letter T there, it is a 170.

If not, it might be a later model.

Look under the exhaust manifold, and count the number of freeze plugs.

 

I had a stone stock '61 Falcon, data tagged to a 170, and it was blue/black.

That aside, the fuel pump is the key that it is a later block. That pump will NOT fit an early block (possibly '63 back, definitely won't fit '60 or '61). Camshaft lobe differences. PCV was optional from the off, though rarely seen before '65 or so. Mine own '64 does not have PCV (road draft tube, goes down beside the distributor). '61 didn't either.
Lastly, depending on application, those pumps come clocked differently, as to how the lines fit on. The truck pump has the lines aimed near directly at the distributor, the car has the lines aimed more away from the distributor, yet still forward. You cannot change the clocking, the units are swaged together. I have a new car pump here (won't fit truck, clearances differ). Also have flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate and bell housing for a 4 speed, which is NOT the one illustrated above. Got the Falcon 4 speed shifter, too....

 

Here is a 144/170 engine block:

Note the orientation of the fuel pump mounting boss. The fuel pump on these points down, and has a vacuum section for the wipers on the top.

On a later block, the boss is upside down from this, closer to the pain rail, and the fuel pump points up, like yours:


(Sorry, only picture I could find until tomorrow, when I will see my 200)

 

Thanks for the info and pointers! I'll look for the block marking tomorrow, and verify number of freeze plugs (I'm 95% it was 3)

 

Just to be OCD - the vacuum booster/fuel pump is supplanted by a fuel only pump when the electric wipers were ticked as an option. And there was no vacuum takeoff on the intake. Neither had a built-in filter, there was an inline filter very near the carb.

 

Yes, but his fuel pump is not either one of those.

Also, the casting date code is on the side of the block.

This is a 1961 (C=1960's, 1=year: C1-1961)
This is an early 6. I believe the later ones are on the driver's side.

 

Just to keep things confusing, there was a 1-year-only (think one year) 4-main bearing 200. It had 3-freeze plugs.

 

Ford - 100 ways to build the same thing!!

 

Interesting.... I guess the next step will be to look for the block stamp, then pull the dizzy and see if she's 1/4" or 5/16" drive.... if she's 5/16 my life just got a lot easier (I think).

 

Thanks for the tip.

You missed a couple zeros.

 

2 thumbs up on the T5....

This is how I did it...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/yet-another-falcon-six-t5-swap-thread.949637/

 

I have a 170/c4 in my Ranchero. Nice combo!

 

I'm reading 4-2l5j by the distro....

 

C8de-94 on the manifold as well as 9k16

 

2k26 and c3de-6090-d on the intake.

 

And three freeze plugs... And a 3 bolt starter.

 

Re: problems idling; have you run a compression test? My family had several cars with these in the '60's, and at about 80k miles they'd start to idle poorly from burned exhaust valves in the #1 and #6 holes. I don't think much gas made it's way down to the end cylinders, they ran lean, burned the valves.

I always wanted to get a Mustang 6 and mill the side of the intake manifold to bolt up some SU's...

 

And dizzy appears to have 1/4" drive...

 

You have a bit of a mix of parts.

The head is a '63.
The exhaust manifold is a '68.
The distributor is a '63.

The block has a number, I think behind the spot where the down pipe attached to the exhaust manifold. In one of the above pictures, you can see the number 8,poking out just above the shadow of the battery cable. The numerals are about 5/8" tall. I think your block casting year is there.


Your PCV line comes out of the manifold at a br*** elbow and it goes to a t-fitting before it goes to the PCV valve. Where does that line go?