I would love to get rid of my "center point" steering on my 50 but i dont want to swap to a mustang II either. I allready have a sbc in it so i think i would have to stay with a trad. steering box not a rack. due to oil pan clearence that im sure would pop up with a rear steer rack. But hell if some one here has done it im open to any thing. Im just trying to get rid of the sloppy stock stuff. So let me know if there is a known swap that works well and isnt a pain in the ass to do. i do have a good saginaw box from the early 80's but i have not looked into making it work. Thanks Bryan
Hubbcat on this forum sent me a bit of info on using a Saab 900 steering rack. Can't vouch for it as I haven't tried it (lack of LHD Saabs over here...), but he says it's the right width, and the trackrod ends have the correct taper. Phil
Hey DIRTYT! I would recomend you e-mail; secomish@speedwaymotors.com. The guys name is Scott E. Comish. He is one sharp knowledgeable parts guy. It's great when the guy on the other end of the line knows exactly what you are talking about. He put together a "gasser front end price package" for me with an adapter to use the original box which is what I am planning on for the 1950 Chev 2 door I am building. That way I can keep my original box yet get rid of the "goofy stock steering arrangement". He mentioned that I could also go with a Vega steering box or a rack. I think I would...steer ... you his way. Gary 4T950 Chevy Guy
Sorry - went to bed! As for which years, I think any of the pre-GM racks should interchange. Don't know which ones are non-power steering though which would be my choice. Early 99 ones are weaker, and narrower I believe. I forgot one other thing he suggested. Grab the Saab coupling as well to adapt to the bottom of the column.
Hey Brian, did you rebuild the stocker yet? I was planning on keeping the stock steering and suspension in mine because I heard that rebuilding em and tuning the steering it can make the car handle ok. If you do figure it out, please post a Tech of the rest of us lazy bastard to copy from!
yea i thought about rebuilding the stock stuff. But that gets expensive and will still not be "modern" style steering. this summer my car was a chore to drive next i want it to be a pleasure. From what hubcat said the saab rack is a direct bolt after some brackets are fabbed and you modifie your stock steering column. Ill be going this weekend some time to this junk yard i know of with lots of saabs and looking for a manual rack since i would rather stay manual but if i have to go power steering i will. Ill keep every one updated as to how it turns out and try to do a tech post on it. Bryan
I've got the same problem with mine..rebushed the center link, swapped to a '54 box, still sloppy... wander this way, head it off...wander that way..head it off.. seems there's no way to get rid of that 1/8 turn that does nothing..and yes, the steering box is adjusted correctly. Choprods says you can replace all this with rear steer Nova box and assoicated arms, you just mount the box, and bolt the idler arm on the other side to the frame...I haven't done this yet..I have a M2 I was thinking of putting in and upgrading the brakes at the same time..but all that would take me a year to get done...at the rate I work. Brian
The poor guy remedy for these cars is this: Remove steering box[cut and leave steering column]install bushing in its end and a borgenson joint] Install a 68-72 Nova or 67 69 Camaro ~rear~ steer-MANUAL box,[an easy job] to mount..... remove all the 49 centerlink crap. Install COMPLETE center link and tie rods from same 68 72nova the box comes from-complete with the IDLER from same car....it all fits Main prob is dont get the box too far back towrds firewall....ya want the tie rods paralell to the steering arm ends......
Funny this got brought back up. I just started doing it this weekend. i got a non power rack off ebay for 75 bucks (i guess the non power ones are rare the power ones can be had from 25-50 bucks) i pulled all the stock stuff out saterday and last night i began to mock up where it all go into place. i didnt get the stock saab steering shaft and joints so i need to get them from a junk yard before i go a whole lot further. But as it sits right now it seems like its going to be easy as pie. I have to put on flat plates off the frame rails with a gusset to my motor mounts and then chop down the stock shaft and put a bearing in it. ill try to remember to take some pics as i go. Thanks Bryan
I would love to see some pics of these swaps. I really don't want to change the entire suspension in my 54, but the stock does leave a lot to be desired.
I just went out and looked at my Motors Manual to refresh my memory. Last centre-point I had seen was a Chrysler (DeSoto). The Nova swap-ola won't work, unless you like a whole buncha bump steer. Dunno about the 900 SAAB, but as I recall from the last one through here, that won't work either, for the same reason. You see, the pivots for the stock arms are at a fairly extreme angle from parallel, a line drawn through would meet before the trans mount. Your inner tie rod ends will HAVE to pivot on a line drawn between the two arm pivot lines (also drawn). When the arms go up and down, the tie rods also go up a down. ALL this HAS to move as a paralellogram, else the spindles will pivot as a result of suspension movement, which is known as bump steer. There IS a Chevy rack (Cadaver?? Corpsica??) that has the inner pivots very close together (inches). This is possibly the only hope, though the rack itself may prove difficult to mount in a proper manner. FWIW, the last one I worked on got sub-framed with a clip from a early eighties 'A' body. Worked great. Cosmo
Fuck, my 49 steered GREAT!!! I shoulda saved the box off that beast! Everything was tight and you could steer it with one finger! I think the BIGGEST problem with yours was that siezed kingpin!!
I know 2 guys running a center-piont power rack/pinion out of a '88-'93 Cavalier with the help of a conversion kit from Butch's Rod Shop. One is on a '53 and the other a '54. Now I can't find any info on this place and when I try his website a while back, it's now a gay site . If anyone has any info on Butch's Rod Shop, please let me know. Otherwise I might just copy my buddy's brackets, he said they are just 1/4" flat steel. I did check the price of a new rack at Napa-$130.00.
Cosmo- I think you mean well ,But I personally drove the setup I mentioned above and my Brother owned it for three years and drove the vehicle it was on everywhere....['46 chevy truck with 54 frt end]........with excellent results. If you have done this swap I mentioned then I'd have to believe you-but since you obviously have not- then I do not place much value on your opinion of it. I personally believe the rack setups mentioned ,sound like even more of a cobblefest than what I mentioned.
Bryan already has a manual SAAB rack, and has little more than time to lose by giving it a try at this point in the game. I'm sure Kenny's idea would be an easy low cost alternative as well, and the center pivot steering racks are cheap and plentifull as well if he were to venture into THAT realm, too! (I just sold a 92 Sunbird with the center pivot rack, it's very compact and mounts flat. I think it would be, as Kenny says, a cobble-fest, but it could work out.) Really, I was 100% satisfied with the stock system on my 49, but I may have lucked into one with tight clearances and freely moving kingpins...making for No Worries, even on MICHIGAN roads!!! (Although I always had radials on the front the whole time I drove the car.) Ha Ha...I told Bryan the whole Mustang II swap might be the EASIEST route (using the complete bolt-in kits available), but I'm not a big fan of Pinto Parts on anything but Pintos, personally! Bryan is crafty and tenacious...he'll get something figured out!!
I'm surprised you can't get good quality bushings for the center link, etc. intended for a Corvette application, reproduced (unless they're stupid money because they have the magic C-word on the box). I haven't really driven mine except around the driveway; the effort at low speed isn't unreasonable - no worse than another manual steer car I had that was 1000 lbs heavier. But I scored a '54 box free and thought I'd use it to adapt a later column and rag joint setup into the car. Probably won't mess with that until I've driven it some, but the '54 box is supposed to be a little better internally. I'm sure if you spend the bucks it can be made to handle as good as new, the only question then is how good was it in the first place.
i think it all depends on the driver. some of us are used to the technology of old cars, they require constant input to drive, i think 1/8 turn of slop in the wheel is "spec" in the old manuals. nobody tolerates that in the world of r&p steering. it's different in old cars, you gotta pay attention to stay between the lines! i got pulled over for suspected drunk driving once, demonstrated the sloppy wheel to the occifer, said that's about as straight as it gets in an old car, and he sent me on my way.
Theres one thing to having to pay attention and the requirement of constant imput. Then there is the whole being unsafe thing. My chevy would change lanes at any moment.Now i know there are more factors going into that then just a sloppy box but i figure while im in there why not update a few things a more cost effective way. And i can get rid of that over enginered stock set up that works "ok" but more or less just is a big mess in the way of every thing.
I think Cosmo is right! BUT...perhaps the length of the control arms and the limited range of UPWARD suspension movement keep the Saab bumpsteer to a minimum in normal driving conditions...thus masking the effect. Once you get into the 6 or 7 inches of suspension movement area...that was a BIG bump you hit and you'd expect some severe input thru the steering anyway. Bumpsteer, even in an IFS can be VERY dangerous. You MIGHT think that you only get it in one wheel at a time so the other wheel will keep the car straight. NOT true. It can be scary! Perhaps total suspension movement can be limited to help keep the effect from showing itself. I imagine MOST early Chevys on here are lowered...that helps...maybe limit the lower control arm lift with a strap to keep the arcs of movement within an acceptable range? Nova system, with its potentially longer steering links should be better. Cav type rack would probably be the ultimate if you can make a strong mounting setup. What about the Nova setup, with a modified centerlink to accept stock length original style tierod links?
HackerBill- I have to confess -I did not DO the nova/camaro swap I mention above- I only drove it,and I cant remember if the center link from the Camaro[nova too] was shortened and sleeved or not....[It must have been]- modified as I now realize that it would have about had to be wider than need be....But for the most part it WAS all stock stuff and really was a simple looking swap with more than decent results in driveability.......
There was an article in Street Rodder when Ganahl was still there about installing a '60s GM manual box in his '48, which had the same steering setup as the '49-'54s.
If any one gives a darn, here are some measurements from a rear steer Camaro/Nova subframe's steering parts........ Distance between right-left tie rod holes in Steering arms on CENTER=48-1/2" distance[centers] between the tie rod holes on the CENTER LINK=17-1/2" distance between hole in Pitman arm and hole in Idler arm as mounted=26-1/2" Left/right TIE ROD center of each tie rod to same= -total length each side =15-1/2"
Great post, just wondering if anyone had any photos of their steering swap. Not so much a how to but an after shot. I am having trouble visualizing. Thanks.
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