Can someone please put this rearends in order from strongest to weakest? Dana 60 ,Olds /Poncho ,9 inch ford ,12 bolt Chevy ,8.5 10 bolt Chevy,8 inch ford,8.8 ford ,55-64 Chevy car .....I think i may have it in the right order ,but not sure.
I think the Mopar 8 3/4" falls in there somewhere too. I'm told that in stock form they were inherently stronger than a stock 9" Ford and a little more efficient due to piinion placement.
I think you have it close in order, but what can add to the complexity of the rating is some rearends had both 28 spline, and 31 spline axles (ford 9 inch) Dana 60-30 and 35 spline axles etc. The larger the spline # the larger the axle diameter. There are several weak points in a rearend (chevy c-clips could be a failure point) or Ford 9 inch pinion support cracking/breaking. It's not always the largest axle wins (my .02 cents) My number one vote for the strongest, least failure prone is the dana 60 35 spline trac lock posi which weighs TONS! That poncho and 8-3/4 must be right up there near 2nd.
Thanks guys ,i was on my way out the door when i started this thread this morning and i forgot about the 8 3/4 mopar. The reason i ask is cuz i keep hearing 9 inch this and 9 inch that, but in the form with the 28 spline axles ,they dont seem much stronger than an 8 inch with the same axles,cross pin ,and mini spool.I have seen both 8 and 9 inch pumpkins grenaded ...
one more thing to think about ,even though i love the d60.i have to give the 9" credit for all the aftermarket support... mark williams ,currie,mosar,strange just to name a few...
My take: Dana 60 Ford 9" 12-Bolt 8.8" Ford 8" Ford 10-Bolt 54-57 Chevy I honestly don't know anything about the old Olds/Poncho to know where to place 'em, but I do know they're strong... YMMV
what about the 8.8 im running one and i know a few people with blown injected nos new mustangs running low 9 s spinning the tiers the hole track and they hold up with a little work done to them.
I can tell ya I broke about 8, 8 3/4" Mopars in My Dart when it started going high tens. With an automatic and no transbrake.
There are also big Lincoln/Ford 9-3/8" rear ends. They look like a regular Ford 9" until you go to put it into another 9" housing and it won't fit. You have to notch the hole in the housing a little on top and bottom to get the ring gear to fit in the housing. The one I found had 31 spline axles and "trac loc" and a 3.50:1 ratio. I was told they don't sell aftermarket replacement gears for them though because they're not that common. The teeth on the gears are really huge and beefy looking.
I pretty much agree with Flat Ernie, but I'll divide it out a little more. Dana 60 <<Olds Poncho Ford 9" << 31+ spline 12-Bolt 8.8" Ford 10 bolt 8.5" ring <<9" 28 spine 8" Ford 10-Bolt <<7.5" ring 54-57 Chevy Not sure about the 9" over the 12 bolt. I've heard 'em listed each way.
Well what the hell, I'll chime in here too: I think Ernie is on the right track, Buzzard has narrowed it down a little more. Here are my pics: Dana 60 Aftermarket-built 9-inch (with big bearings, higher spline count, etc.) Stock 8 3/4 Mopar Dana 44 Stock 9-inch 8.8-inch Ford Chevy 12-bolt 8.5 10-bolt Ford 8-inch 7.5 10-bolt '55-'64 Chevy drop-out rear. Now, what I'll add is this: The aftermarket 9-inch is going to cost a lot more than the Dana 60. The Dana might rob a little more horsepower, and it's heavier. But it really is the 800-pound gorilla in the room. All stock 8 3/4 rears come with 30-spline axles. There is a difference in carriers (three different ones; 489 case and 472 cases have the beefier pinion stems and bigger bearings. 471 case has an X cast into it, as if to tell you "don't use this one!" though the Sure Grip units will all interchange). The standard pinion bearings in the Mopar case are the same size as the "big" Daytona bearings in the 9-inch. A 9-inch diff has an inherant weakness though the cir***ference of the bolt circle. It's not uncommon to see them cracked through all the bolt circles. The 8 3/4 has a nearly bullet-proof dif, though the common "cone type" units can't be rebuilt. Randys Ring and Pinion offers rebuildable, early-style Clutch-type diffs now. The axle diameters are also not tapered along their length, unlike most others. The 9-inch does have that third pinion support bearing, but almost half of the casting for the boss that the race sits in hangs out in space; it's not uncommon at all for this boss to break off under abuse, sending a nice chunk of cast steel into your ring gear. The 8.8 basically looks like the Ford engineers de-constructed a 12-bolt and took the design as their own. Even the bearings are the same. I chose the 8.8 over the 12 because there are more--though slightly smaller diameter--bolts holding the ring gear to the dif. I'd rather have 2 more bolts distributing the load, even if they are a sixteenth or eighth smaller diameter. Lots more parts availability for the 8.8. They're under everything from the factory, from Explorers and Crown Vics to Mustangs, and racers are going stupid-fast with them these days. The Dana 44 is a very strong unit, and the most common rear end in the country, and the most overlooked. They were under everything from Packards (or was it Hudsons?) to mail jeeps to new Cherokees and Ford trucks, as well as Corvettes and Vipers. If it isn't breaking behind a 550hp Viper with wide-*** tires that grip too well to do a burnout, it won't break behind what we're building. Plus it's lighter than the Dana 60. Hell, it might deserve to be higher on my list. I put it below the 8 3/4 due to its C-clips and 28-spline axles. TONS of aftermarket support for them, but you have to look to 4x4 suppliers for it. Don't know why, but they never really caught on as a hot rod rear end. The 9-inch rated higher than the 8.8 due to no clips, 31-spline axle availability, 4-pinion differentials and no C-slips. Really though, I'd probably rate your average junk-yard scored 9-inch (28-spline, single rib case, single-pinion dif) lower than the 8.8. Depends on what you find as your starting point. Finally, the '55-'64 Chevy rear can be built stronger, but you really gotta want to do it. Dana spider gears will bolt in, giving you 28-spline axles. With those, Moser axles and billet caps, they can be good rear ends--all of which is out there, as well as brand new Posi units. But it's not going to approach the strength of a Dana 44 or well-built 9-inch. I don't know anything about the Pontiac/Olds units, other than back in the '60s, Fuel and Funny cars were running those or Mopar 8 3/4 rears. They are heavy, and the aftermarket isn't exactly bursting at the seams with support. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. -Brad
I don't have a lot of experience with a lot of different kind of rears and I have never push one to the point of coming apart. That said, I currently have a stock 57 Olds rear in my 57 Olds and I have a Dana 44 under my 34 Plymouth (Vette IRS), and both seem strong. Had a Dana 60 under my hemi powered 69 Barracuda and never had any problems with it when racing (just about every weekend back then). Have also had a few 9 inch Fords and several 10 bolt GM's. Like I said before I have never tried to blow one out and have never had any of them fail me, yet. So however you rank the list, works for me.
The 8 inch with 4.11 's and minispool and hardened cross pin that i have till it grenades.I plan to slip the clutch a bit and let it burn on the launch, since i will be running the wrinkle walls at the "Thaw" to keep from breaking it.My ET with suffer a bit ,but its just for fun and i want to drive it to the Roundup.I suppose i would rather just change the clutch again than bust the third member .I am just weighing out my options on a swap for later...
The Olds/Pont rears are just as tough as a stock 31 Spline 9" Ford. They have a 9.375" ring and are tough as nails, but they don't have the internally supported pinion like the 9" has-although I have never seen one broken. As far as aftermarket, they still make spools, mini spools, axles, and gears from low 3.s to high 4.s and then some others, all parts such as bearings, seals etc... are still available either locally such as NAPA or from places like Randy's, etc... The axle bearings are 88128-88128R the same as the big bearing 9". Posi's for them were factory and aftermarket in the 60s, and they even produced Detroit lockers for them (I am currently running a locker). Brakes are available, etc... so I don't think finding parts for them is an issue. As far as the 55-64 Chevy, the weakest link it the drivers side carrier bearing cap. A support strap or billet cap set is your best bet to save it for high HP cars that are getting some traction. I have seen big block 55-57s use this rear with no trouble and I have one in the 54 Chevy I built for the wife-although it is a mild (325hp) 327 with an automatic and 3.36 posi. Nice rear, and it doesn't take much HP to turn. The 55 rear (such as in my wifes car) has slightly different bearings/axles etc... and are a little harder to get. the mid 56-up are easier/cheaper to get bearings and such for. Center sections are the same but axles, housings, backing plates, etc... are a little different. 8" Ford rears belong in 6cyl Mavericks, in reality they will last ok much like the 8.8 so long as you don't do too many one legger burn outs, it tears the spider gears and shaft up and can cause terminal damage to the rest of the carrier-I have rebuilt a few 8.8s for this reason. The BOP 10bolts are a rugged setup as well. Any rear can be made to handle a reasonable amount of torque with some work, slipping the clutch or letting the tires spin a little takes a ton of pressure off the rear (and U-joints).
There's more to life than ring gear size. That's why I put the 8" Ford over the 10-bolt. The 8" Ford has the 3 pinion bearings just like its big brother. That support out on the end ensure gears don't climb away from each other - that's one of the main reasons the 9" is so strong - even a stock 28-spline rear. I'd never put the 8-3/4 above even a 28-spline 9" - again, there's more to overall strength than spline count alone. No knocking anyone's choices, just giving a bit more justification for mine.
the dana 44 rear end is probably offered in lots of different configs but the one i am using in my 50 chevy is 30 spline and doen't not have have c-clips, axles are held in by a pressed on bearing 8.5 " ring gear also does not use a crush sleeve its shimed for a good solid pinoin. came out of a jeep grand wagoneer....its kind of rare in a wagoneer though
Man there is a weath of real world knowlage on here.I knew i came to the right place to ask.Not just answers but why and why not each axle is better worse.Thanks a bunch guys...
as long as they keep spinning the tires they will probably be ok. it's when they actually hook up you have to start worrying about breakin stuff. ...but i don't know anything real relivent to your question. sorry
Hey just wondering if you can i.d. the olds/pontiac rear i have. Listed it in the for sale. Looks like a detroit locker to me but i dont know. Thanks for the info.
Hey just wondering if you can i.d. the olds/pontiac rear i have. Listed it in the for sale. Looks like a detroit locker to me but i dont know. Thanks for the info.
Hey just wondering if you can i.d. the olds/pontiac rear i have. Listed it in the for sale. Looks like a detroit locker to me but i dont know. Thanks for the info.
Brad and DualQuad 55 got it right on 55-64 Chevy diffs. I run one in vintage road race car and twice one of the OEM side carrier caps has broken, creating all kinds of mayhem. Making up billet steel caps solved the problem. 9' Ford caps are much beefier than the stock Chevy pieces..
Found this in an older Mark Williams catalog: Jamie Frankland told me, in the 1980s that he felt that the 3/4 ton Quick Change fell in between the Ford 9" and Dana 60 for strength, with the Ford being stronger. I'm very familiar with the limitations of a Quick Change but consider these features: 10" Ring Gear 12 Bolt Ring Gear Pinion nose support bearing Pinion on center line of axle (no hypoid) Full floater axles Full floater Hubs off the shelf with 5 on 4 1/2", 4 3/4", 5" and 10 1/4" (Wide 5) 31 spline axles And of course 60+ gear ratios between 2.38 and 7.14 with the recommended 4.12 Ring and Pinion Many choices of spools, Lockers, Trutrac, Torsen, Variloc, and Positraction style carriers. If anyone is interested in building or buying a Quick Change for a drag race car, here are some recommendations: ****er 1350 driveshaft yoke Heat treated lower shaft Heavy duty style center section. (Where the change gears are in the cover rather than in the center Case) REM finished ring and pinion Roller bearing for pinion support 4.12 Ring and pinion My very first Quick Change was built because I couldn't be sure of the final drive ratio I needed for my 1956 Corvette drag car. I was set to use a Ford 9" but decided that if I wanted to change engines that the cost to replace the ring and pinion would be prohibitive. I think I had less than $200 in the whole thing.
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