Customs FE or Windsor block on Flathead trans? Or other solutions for a 47 ford transit

Not really a normal question, but figured that here may be a good place to start. So, I've found an old ford transit but. No motor though. It had been converted to a motorhome and I intend to use it similarly. Though I'm much more a mopar guy, I do have a 352 sitting around, but I have access to all manner of engines just no flatheads. I would also prefer a newer motor that has parts any most parts store carries. I've not ruled out trying to find a running 239, but as I mentioned, I wouldn't mind having a reliable parts source as this will be out on the road often.

The trick here is that the motor is mounted transverse with a 90 degree output (cast as part of the transmission). It's actually a ****er - Lipe 3spd. I've looked for 90 degree output units, but can't seem to find any, though I could have sworn I've seen them before.

I've contacted the usual suspects, but again most of my knowledge is mopar related. Is there a modern engine (yes, even a 350 if needs be) that can be put on the front with an adapter?

Any thoughts or help are greatly appreciated.

 

Offy Part number 0603 FE to 32-48 Ford trans. Contact Exeter auto supply they are an Alliance Vendor. Offy made an adapter for just about any OHV you can think of to early Ford trans.

 

Fantastic! Thank you!

 

Think it would be money better spent to use a ****** designed to handle to torque/power of an FE.

 

Do you know of a ****** with a 90 degree output shaft? This motor is installed transverse (west-east instead of north-south). I've looked, but not found any. I'd be open to suggestions. While not a huge improvement, this is a "heavy-duty" 3spd, so I'm hoping it can handle a little more abuse. Also being a bus, I won't be flogging it.

Originally I was hoping to find a 90 degree output adapter, but haven't found one. Most pushers the motor is mounted straight in the back and the rear end is part of the transmission.

In this case, the motor and transmission are transverse (sideways) and the transmission has a 90 output which then connects to the rear end via a short drive shaft.

But certainly, if you have ideas, let me have them.

 

Wow, didn't realize that! I'd say get a 302 or 351 then where you seem to be stuck with the OEM ******, of course a bus isn't exactly traditional rodding...so..maybe a modern sideways V6 from a SHO Taurus (or some other Ford), perhaps?

 

That right angle drive is an interesting situation for sure. Although it is a somewhat heavy-duty trans I'd be concerned about too much torque as well as too much weight. Every package has a 'weak-link' and this may be yours.
As noted, there are many old-time adapters for putting just about any engine in front of the 39 style box so you should be able to find something. You might also call Pat McGuire or check his web site (wilcap)...he may have something.
There are, no doubt, forums for old-bus fanatics that may be worth looking into and/or perhaps a newer trans system could be adapted to take advantage of a newer engine. Reliability/durability should be high on the list since, if you break this one after spending a pile of money installing a bigger engine, you will be starting over. Have you thought about a ***mins 4bt?

Keep us posted.
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Google terms like brownie box, brownlipe, ****er brownlipe. In the late 60's they made a lot of transmissions and transaxles, as well as the auxiliary transmissions used in many RV's and heavy duty trucks back in the day. Find some numbers on your unit, look up its specs, and decide if there is an engine that will work with it for your needs, or if they made a similar unit that you could replace it with

 

Weird, a transverse flathead. Do you have a better pic of how the set up works? A s I see it you won't be flogging it could you pick up a flathead to fit or turn the setup north south in a bus you have the length?

 

You can see how the motor is slipped in from the side. (just in case anyone is wondering, no the boom is not resting on the bus). I'll see about getting a better pic of the transmission. I did a bit of searching on the trans, but the model number didn't come up. Wilcap was my first stop. They didn't know of any when I emailed. The Offy unit will work. Look to be inexpensive. I may even put a smaller carb on for safety's sake.

I've got a 4bt for my Ramcharger But I'd be more worried about it in this than a 352 with the torque.

 

You are going to need a heavy duty motor like something out of a truck. A car motor won't stand up.

The 352 is a heavy duty motor, it may be all right for limited use.

Baby the transmission and it should stand up. In other words use a stock 352 2 barrel and don't give it full throttle until the clutch is fully engaged and you have developed some forward momentum. There are probably better lubricants such as synthetics that will help prevent wear.

 

Very cool, out with different also. Do you have a plan for the brakes etc as these could be a little difficult to source parts for , but they will be big ol ugly brakes with any luck will cross over to trucks. You certainly have a task ahead of you ,but worth it.

 

Having suggested the Offy adapter I feel compelled to offer some caution. That bus likely came with an 11 inch Long style pressure plate as most large Ford trucks of the day. The aluminum adapter may not clear the hat or particularly the fulcrum weights on the Long P/P, you will have to check. Of course a Borg and Beck or diaphragm may give you the clearance you need but would require re drilling the 352 flywheel. The fingers for any will have to match the large Ford release bearing and you will need to check the pilot bearing to input shaft dimensions. '49 Merc used a 10 inch Borg and Beck I believe, if it is large enough for this purpose. Just thinking.

 

The 352 came out of a 1 ton dump truck, so I was thinking it'd be a good candidate for this.

Good information. I've never worked with flatheads, so that's excellent information to have. As far as brakes, those are parts I plan to keep backups if parts are available. Now, I don't know absolutely, but I've been told that the brakes are the same as the grain trucks all the way into the 50s. There is a place in northern Indiana that can reline brakes, so at worst there may be that possibility.

Ultimately I'd like to check out possible spindle swaps, but if parts CAN be found, I'm fine with that. I've been spending a lot of time trying to track down a parts book and manuals to shed more light on this thing. My wife's grandfather thinks he has one... somewhere... being a ford guy his whole life. I will likely add a brake booster for safety.

The only thing I'm feeling strong about is swapping out to 22.5 solid rims. I'd really love to find another transmission solution, but nothing yet. My very first thought was to cut down a rear end to act as a 90 degree adapter, but even at its shortest, it wouldn't leave much room for an engine nevermind the gearing issue.

My wife's grandfather was all about installing an engine south-north and making an engine compartment inside, but I mainly want this thing driving with the minimum amount of work and cost to keep my wife happy so we don't just have a shed on wheels.

Following young'n'poor's suggestion, I'm hoping to find some specs on the trans to have a real idea of what its limits are.

 

I'm curious, where is the right angle drive located? Is it after the transmission where it is subject to torque multiplication? I'm thinking the Brown-Lipe might be a fairly stout piece. Probably not suitable for a Top Fueler, but since it is in a bus, I wouldn't be too scared to mate it to a 352 2V. Driven carefully, of course. You may also find out the gear whine may compete with a werewolf.

 

Here is a crude illustration. the 90 degree is after. I had read that it may be helical cut, but you be right After it p***es through the firewall, there is a short driveshaft and then the rearend.

 

Have you been to this site? http://www.aths.org/
Looks like a potential source of info if you have time to dig around.

.

 

Yes, driven with any care, that ****** will live, ***uming it's in good condition to begin with.
Yes, Ford built the '64-78 FE heavy duty truck engines differently and better than the car/light truck versions. They even gave them different nomenclature i.e. 361", 391".

A bit OT, but I chose Ford 335-series 370" dump truck pistons to modify for use in a Packard V8 I built for my Studebaker 3/4t pickup. They have a cast-in iron compression ring groove.

jack vines

 

Thanks for the forum link!

I wasn't aware of that about the pistons. But, I imagine many companies built their truck engines tougher. I know Dodge did.

 

Another thought: Those things were commuter type busses, any idea what final drive ratio it has. It likely weighs 10,000 or so. If you get enough rear gear to cruise at motorhome velocity first gear in the trans may be too tall.

 

According the the internet, it weighs in at 10,600. If I can do 55-60, I'll be plenty happy. It says low gear is 407 (presumably 4.07) to 1 on the transmission tag (one of the photos above).

It's possible it may be a lost cause, but I don't think it is. I live in the country, so 45-50 is much more my typical speed. I don't foresee it as much of a commuter. More likely the wife will follow me when I'm moving tractors and equipment between fields and maybe if I get enough of it cleaned up, up to the lake.

 

How is the angle gearbox attached to the trans? Directly bolted to the back? Just wondering if you could use a later 4x4 trans...the type with the transfer case married to them. Got any detailed pics of the trans/gearbox?

 

It is cast as part of the gearbox and not removable.

It is possible that an industrial supplier may have a 90 degree box that could handle 200ish hp, but I'm betting it'd be rather salty.

 

I installed a 1961- 352 two bbl car engine in a 46 ford bob truck decades ago . used a adapter I got from JC whitney. The car engine held up great. and used less fuel than the flathead. my truck had dual 750X20 rear tires and I could smoke them! The truck had the granny four speed. However you might be better off to consider a big inline six a 300 ford or a 292 chevy. I see a tricycle front model B farmall tractor in your avatar. Ive got a collection of farmalls. A super A , wide front narrow guage B five M,s two 350,s a 300 utility and a super C. I use mine for bailing hay and plowng ect.

 

An old rule of thumb the greater the distance between the main shaft and the counter shaft the stouter the trans.

 

Yes, that was my grandfather and great uncle's B. First tractor I ever drove. Bought it and his COOP E3 off my grandmother to restore. Believe it or not I mainly use a 560D, but always liked that B and the E3. Also have his 806, but it's a gas engine and rather thirsty. I really like the 300/350 and 400/450. I wanted to get a 400/450 for hay, but was blessed with this 560. Been a great tractor. And that 282 just sips the fuel. Got any pics of your collection?

Back on topic, I do really like the 300 (well all inline really, especially the slant 6) but I don't have one at hand and the 352's have always been good to me... and since I have one that's not doing anything anymore... It had 70k on it when the dump truck was wrecked. I'm reusing the dump bed on a trailer and have been trying to figure out where the motor ought to go.

 

Perhaps a little off topic, but what does 15'-0 of shift linkage look like?? Or should I ask how is the clutch and shift accomplished? All mechanical or hydraulic or...?

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If you where actually planning on using the bus and wanting it to be reliable & safe. You might consider a entire ch***is swap. put that body on a newer frame & driveline. Get a school bus or a 2 ton truck. and build a doghouse for the engine.

 

Not sure what it all looks like, other than it is mechanical.

I'd hate to cut it up. I do intend to use it, mainly as a place for my kids to hangout in while in the fields, farming... and a place for me to use the restroom politely rather than going all the way back to the house or digging holes. If a "collector" was interested in restoring it (with apparently only 4 others know to still exist) I'd sell it. But it is the right price, right time and can serve the function I need. I've actually been looking for a short Travco or an old dog nose bus with some lines, but never seem to find one close and not utterly destroyed. If I get it moving again, I expect someone will have a "collector" interest in it eventually and that will be the right time to move it on.

 

"The 352 came out of a 1 ton dump truck, so I was thinking it'd be a good candidate for this."

Excellent, should work perfect in the bus


"According the the internet, it weighs in at 10,600. If I can do 55-60, I'll be plenty happy. It says low gear is 407 (presumably 4.07) to 1 on the transmission tag (one of the photos above)."

If it was a coach you should have no problem. As it was a transit bus you can still go 60 but the engine will be revving pretty good. 55 might prove better. The 352 will rev higher than a flatty so it should still be ok. You aren't planning any coast to coast trips are you?

One way to raise the gearing at little or no cost would be to buy larger diameter tires. Even an inch or 2 will make a noticeable difference. I expect you need new tires anyway.

The drive train is heavy duty so I don't think you will break anything, even with a bigger motor, if you are half way sensible. I would be more concerned about overheating something if you drive a long time at high speed. Another reason to use synthetic lube if you can. But, 55 should be perfectly safe. You will have to see how it feels, and how high it revs.