Event Coverage 2015 GEAR JAM DRAGS - Feedback wanted

You have to have classes... There aren't any successful nostalgia races that don't have classes... People want to watch similarly styled cars race each other, and those owners want to race against each other. It's been that way since the '50s. Fans have their favorites too--watch the stands some time: when Hot Rods run, everyone is kinda just there. When the gassers run, the stands fill up. THAT is why you have classes... because racers and fans want them.
Plus, if you've got a whole day of 7-second FEDs against 13-second hot rods... that makes for a shitty race for everyone involved. That's not the same thing as pairing indexes in each class against eachother.
And like I said--nobody is going to think anything less of the event if a two-lane Blacktop clone runs in Gas and then in Hot Rod.
Read what I wrote again: All those can NOT enter Hot Rod class.
If it's going to bug you to have a '62 Catalina or a '55 Chevy race your '32 Ford in the Hot Rod class, well, I dunno what to tell you.

 

A dedicated Stick Car class would be great.
But why wouldn't those cars come and run in the existing Index classes I've got set up?

 

Notice I said when you already have a trailer, a truck to pull the trailer, and a shop withj air and impac, and live 100+ miles from the track..
Been gone to Peach Bowl Runion all day, but this thread has been in my mind.
I totally agree that hot rods and purpose built drag race cars shouldn't be in the same class. And like the Supreme Court Justice who commented "I may not be able to describe the difference between art and pornography, but I know the difference when I see it", I can't yet think of a proper set of rules to define the difference between purpose built drag race cars from hot rods built for and operating on the street that have come to the drag strip to play a bit, but I know the difference when I see it.
I don't think it's whether you chose to trailer it to the strip or drive it to the strip as long as it's streetable and normally (and often) driven on the street.
I'm not even sure whether it's street legal, insured and registered with a tag or not, because then you eliminate cars like that of Capt. Mulette, and no one can say his "A" isn't a hot rod.
Brad somewhere said no "round" blowers like a Paxton or a Vortex, but GMC, 8-71 or smaller was OK. I have a friend with a MK8 Lincoln running a Vortex or some thing similar, not sure except it's a modern centrifugal supercharger, and that car is as streetable and docile when driven normally as a fully stock Lincoln. So what's the solution? Hell I dunno, but there must be some way to separate them, with that I agree.

 

I think some guys are making a little too much out of this, so I'll try to simplify it for you...
If you have a car and you just want to make a few passes, enter the car show, and we'll have several opportunities for non-competition passes through the weekend... As I've said already.

If you want to enter the drag race to compete, enter the class that fits the rules.
Here's something else that might be escaping some people: If you enter your vehicle in a drag race competition... For that day, ITS A RACE CAR... regardless of how you got it to the track, what kind of tires it has, or how fast it runs.
Sometimes I think people argue just to argue.
(and why are we talking about Mk8 Lincolns with round blowers, in a discussion about a nostalgia drag race and its classes and format? Unlike other "nostalgia" races in the area, I'm actually NOT allowing modern vehicles into The Gear Jam as anything but tow rigs)

 

The "round blower" being in/on a MK8 is irrevelant to the fact that there's little if any difference in that and a roots blower in it being a hot rod or not a hot rod, not the car it's on. I was trying to say the choice of blower type, if you choose to supercharge, shouldn't be what makes a race car or a hot rod. Hell, the Paxton was an option on a '57 ford!

 

Yeah... and I've covered that in the rules...
"Power Adders
No Nitrous
No Turbo
Round-style superchargers and turbos allowed only if Original Equipment, such as supercharged Thunderbirds, Studebakers or Turbo Corvairs.
Superchargers: GMC/Roots-type, 8:71 max displacement. Original 1950s McCollouch, Judson, etc. other brands allowed. No modern Paxton or Vortec"

I'm updating the website, and there's going to be a few minor changes to things, but perhaps everyone should actually read the class rules that have been up on the site for two years before giving input on what the rules should be.

 

Brad, I just don't like somebody trying to tell me that if I choose to trailer BGII or any other hot rod car that's licensed, insured, and street legal (and driven often on the street) to Commerce or anywhere else I want to take it, that trailering it disqualifies it as being a hot rod. Cars do break once in awhile when you hammer on them, and if you already have a trailer and a truck to pull it, why not?
But to be honest about it, I'll most likely do as you suggest and register BGII as a show car, then make a few passes when the opportunity arises. Hell, I may not even put on the slicks, I dunno. Just wanta play a little without woorying about John Law. Then classes are totally immaterial to me.

 

There we go . . .

I get that from reading the rules as well, basically there is no "street-driven only" class other than car show participants.

I do think it would be cool and probably a lot more fair to the guy driving to the track and swapping slicks on in the pits to have a street car class as I was that guy several years ago with my falcon. Bought an extra pair of steelies, worn out used et drags, threw them in the back seat and put the jack in the trunk . . . blew a pump seal at Southeastern Dragway in the c4 and then later broke an axle at Brainerd Optimist. Both times had to lie to my parents about getting home late since my mom didn't want me drag racing. Either way, daily drove that car in college and ran 7.70s in the 1/8 which used to be quick for a street car back in 2005-2006.

I don't have a "dog" in that fight since I don't have a street car or a door car so who knows if you would have enough people to run it. If anything all a street car class does is put money back into the local PD because you always somehow end up finding the guy you didn't get a chance to run driving home

 

Well said Tyler, but if you have a coupe or a roadster, it's hard to find a back seat to haul the slicks.

 

Well see, that's exactly right in my mind.
I don't get into that whole "trailered/driven" thing, nor do I worry about "real steel/fiberglass."
I figure debates like that are reserved for men who are self-conscious about the length of their... shift handle.

 

I don't wanna open a "Can o Worms" here.....but.....

I was there running 9's in Hot Rod class at Gear Jam (flat black blown altered street legal Fiat). To my knowledge....it was the only car in the 9's that was driven to the cruise in the night before.......but since I trailered the car to Commerce in my small 7x16 toy hauler (which is what I camp in when at the event) I guess my car isn't a STREET car..........hmmmm.........wait a minute........

The Fiat seats 2, runs on pump gas and it's routinely driven 45 min to an hour up to my buddies house and back. Also driven an hr to the Mountain Moonshine festival and back and an hr to Calhoun where I raced raced and drove back........all of which was done on DOT slicks. Hell.....it's even been on a road course. I could drive 6 hrs if I wanted too......I just choose not to.

My car is a race car........AND a street car, which is exactly what I designed/built it to be (and rest assured....I designed/built the entire car....chassis, rear end housing, engine....all of it).

People need to stop whining. The people I respect are the guys who just have fun with it.....like the the guy that had the Fiat with flames and a big wing running a flatty running 12's. When I beat him....he could have been as ass and complained.....but he came over and shook my hand and we laughed about it. I did the same when I red lit and got beat by an 11 sec car the next round.

Just get out there and race and quit worrying about who's/what's in the other lane.

 

People do need to quit whining. The only feedback was that the hot rod class is the dumping ground. People that have cars that fit two classes can also race the hot rod class. This was especially bad when it was heads up. One fast complete race car won all the classes. Now that it's bracket racing it is a little better. That levels the table and the folks with actual hot rods have a chance.

The trailering thing was meant to be: if your car has to be on a trailer because it's a full dedicated race car then I think it would make the hot rod class better if there was another class for cars like that. I was posting from my phone and probably a little more brief than I should have been.

If you trailer because you are in your seventies or you just feel like trailering then DER - trailer your car. Sensitive sensitive - The point I was trying to make was it's a "drag car" and it has to be trailered then don't sign up for the hot rod class and beat up on street cars"

Scott- You drive your car on the street and to the cruise. Isn't that an altered? Does it have doors? OK it's an altered street car. OK you trailered it. Don't blame you one bit. For a double chance to win a 1000 bucks for the price of a second tech card, I'd jump in the hot rod class with that too. A guy with an actual hot rod doesn't have chance against cars like yours and the other drag cars that happen to be eligible for the hot rod class. Now that's it's bracket racing, they have a much better shot but the class is diluted. I'd love to see hot rods out there battling it with the same respect as the gasser class. But then to see a 62 409 drag car against a 40 ford coupe - well that ain't really congruent.

I'm also not saying this because of my car. I'm also not entering the hot rod class with anything. My only point was - Let the people with cars that only fit in the hot rod class have their class. Just like the muscle car people wouldn't like it if hot rods could also buy a second tech card and clean all their clocks.

 

Brad- I was being sarcastic about not having classes because most everything fit the hot rod class. What's the difference in watching a FED racing a hot rod and 9 second drag car race a street 40 ford coupe? That's what you have.

Here's the best one of the day "People want to watch similarly styled cars race each other, and those owners want to race against each other." - That was my only point for the hot rod class!

OK - you aren't changing anything and don't really want feedback.

 

Josh, I do want feedback... what kind of tree, what kind of format (ie: bracket or indexes), 1/8 or 1/4, does anybody have a problem with any fuel being allowed, since its an index format... That kind of stuff.

It isn't that nit-picking over the Hot Rod class isn't something I want to hear... it's that the nits you're picking simply don't make sense to the bigger picture... you seem to be upset because there are race cars in a competition class at a drag race... An event that DOES allow on-track time for street cars that don't want to enter the competition. And you're upset because there's a little overlap between gas class and hot rod, and early muscle cars and hot rod.

I don't mind criticism of my events; when Fulp's '58 Ford got put in the Gas class the first year, it was a mistake. I owned it, made restitution to the guys it affected, and made sure it didn't happen again. When there was a problem with Zoro's Charger being put in Gas, I stuck with it and explained why, with documentation proving it was a Gas Class car in AHRA and IHRA in the late '60s.

I think the solution you'd like to see is a couple more dedicated classes... but there's a bunch of reasons that's just not practical; purse money out of my pocket and total event car count being first in line. The idea is to have a few classes with a lot of cars running, not a lot of classes with just a few cars running.

-Brad

 

"... you seem to be upset because there are race cars in a competition class at a drag race..."

I'm not upset and this seems to be your response to try make a bit of fun of me. You're completely missing the point- which you wrote yourself and I agree with! From your post - "People want to watch similarly styled cars race each other, and those owners want to race against each other." Race cars and hot rods by definition aren't similarly styled.

Again, my whole deal is don't dilute the hot rod class. You listened when the Gasser guys got pissed you put that 58 ford in their class - Probably because that's where he belonged. Much closer competition there for the 58 Ford than with hot rods. Have them prove what style is better - gasser or just plain race car. It would make way more sense because they are styled more alike to have the Gassers and Race Cars competing than Race Cars you don't have a class for and the Hot Rods.

It's not that I'd like to see more classes. I think you're missing out on creating some awesome racing action in the hot rod class if you make it fair to actual hot rods. The bracket racing change will help but you're going to have race cars with trans brakes up against the poor old hot rods. The race cars probably have a big advantage there again.

I think if you make it fair to the hot rods - a lot of people will sign up to race their regular cars and you'll have more racing. Other events have plenty of hot rod participants running their cars. Yours could have a fair pay off and people would really get into it.

Maybe just call it "Open Class" and then it is what it is.

 

I do drive it on the street, and it's considered an altered at just about any track I go to, but doors don't have anything to do with it being a street car (mine doesn't have doors, I climb in through the roof)? There are plenty of T buckets and roadsters with non operational doors that are street cars.

Anyhow.... I didn't "jump into" the HR class to win money. I was in HR cause it was where my car fit at Gear Jam (and I only entered on class) as it is an open wheeled street car and I race using a foot brake (my car doesn't have a trans brake or electronics of any kind....not even a two step). I could have raced in the altered class......but there were no street legal cars in that class and they all use trans brakes and two steps. HR was the best fit for my car at this event.

Funny thing is.....I was in the money the last two GJ events, but was one of the guys that recommended to Brad getting rid of the Quick 8 and going to bracket racing. I also recommended getting rid of the money. Cause I doubt Fulp with his 620 CI motored 58 Ford that can run 8's would be out there running for free (could be wrong though). I think the money could go toward paying some of the other groups to come out (like Southern Slingshots) which would be a good spectator draw.

 

My apologies for my assumptions. I never would have realized you didn't compete in altered class.
That made me wonder, I had to go find a picture of what your car looked like.
yep Hot Rod class over Altered class was the best fit for your car. I agree - very similar to a T bucket with a blower motor. You can see where the lines get blurry for some.

 

Cool. Thanks.

I'm making some changes to the car so I can get out of HR and into Comp Eliminator...which is where the alterds race in other events. Still won't have a trans brake or two step...but think it would be fun to have the only street car in Comp.....lol

As for Brad not changing anything and not wanting any feedback...my experience with him has been different. I've approached him on serveral issues......everything from moving the event back to the beginning of the year to bracket racing to eliminating the money . When he's presented with info as to why I thought they were good ideas, he was very receptive.

So, try this. What do you think the specs should be for the Hot Rod class for Gear Jam?

 

Hot Rod class does not payout

 

Or, give each entry who pays for a tech card in Hot Rod a numbered ticket. Let them make as many runs as time allows. Then at the end of the event draw numbers for 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. money.

 

I say leave the money out of it and run for the fun of it. Take the money from the gate to pay expenses and bring in a group like Southeastern Gassers to draw the crowd. When you go to an event where thsay run and you see them line up for a set of practice runs, or especially for the elimination runs, you'll see hard case hot rodders lay down their tools and rush to the fence to see them run. Once spectators see them run , they'll be back again.

 

For all you guys saying "leave the purse money out of it, people will come to race..." How many cars came and made fun-run passes all day? The time was allotted... The answer is "very few." So no, leaving the money out of it will NOT bring in more racers; two year's of The Gear Jam, plus the relatively low car count at other nostalgia events within spitting distance, bears that out. It's not simply my opinion, its well-researched personal observation. I've been to nostalgia races in Alabama, Chattanooga, the Carolinas and south Georgia, and the races just aren't that big... Not big enough for me to justify the time, energy and expense it takes to produce The Gear Jam. I'm aiming BIG. I want to build an event that ranks with the Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green as a must-attend race every year.

No purse money, just come and have fun, works at only a couple events I know of, nationwide... and none of those are here in the South.

So I have to have paying racers to help cover the costs of the event... and the only way to get paying racers is to offer purse money. It's that simple. In fact, someone just a couple posts up even said "Would Fulp show up if there was no purse money involved? No." There's your answer. Another guy in this very thread hasn't been to the first two shows, even though we had fun-runs and grudge racing all day. I DO hear what you guys are saying, but what you are suggesting is already being done--and was the first two years. There's no purse money for people who just want to enter the car show and make passes or grudge race.

Taking the purse pay-out and converting it to appearance fees for niche clubs simply isn't practical either. One Gas group floated a price of $4,000 and they could guarantee four, maybe six cars. If I offer $1,000 purse money, and two solid days of track time, I'll get six gassers and it'll only cost me $1,000 in purse money. That's a pretty simple choice.
Another Gas said about $500 per car. A FED group told me $300-$500 per car... I had 10 FED/Altereds last year. Again, the math is pretty clear.
Nostalgia Funnycars wanted $3,000 for two cars, and Nostalgia Super Stockers wanted $5,000. Anybody got a calculator to figure out how many spectators I need at $10 per to cover appearance money? It's a lot more than the $4,000 I'm offering for purses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not whining at all... or even arguing. I'm just pointing out some of the things that most people who have never put on an event, haven't considered, and I'm also pointing out that a bunch of suggestions people are making, is already an established part of The Gear Jam.

It's $5000 simply to open the gate.
Each day.
Track staff, prep sauce, tech inspectors, rescue crew, security, announcer, etc. etc. etc. is another $7-11,000.
Each day.
My crew, advertising, insurance, etc. etc. ads another $8-10-ish.
Purse money to draw racers is another $4,000.

Some events are a collaboration between an organizer, or club, and the track owner--the organizer gets a small fee for all the work, the track covers all the expenses and gets to keep the racer and spectator gate. That works for some organizations, where they divide the work among all the members of the club or whatnot. Other times charities are involved, and the whole thing is donated.

Could I do it cheaper? Sure--But not at as high-end a facility with great pits, flat landscape and a safe, quality race surface and safe track barriers. And nowhere near as centrally-located for everyone; The Atlanta Dragway is a day's drive from nearly every metropolitan city east of the Misissippi. And long-term, the race will be helped by all those factors. As I said--this is a long-haul deal for me; I want to build one of the best Nostalgia races in the South East.

We've got fun-runs and grudge racing for people who just want to make passes for two days, we've got purse money for racers in four good classes, we've got over 200 vendors in the swap meet, and we've got a car show.

 

Yes, Hot Rod does pay out.
Fun-runs for car show participants (which we've had for the last two years, and will do again this year) do not.
-Brad

 

Here's things an event promoter has to consider when selecting a date:
First race was scheduled for May, the weekend after the Southern Nats. The Southerns got rained out, so NHRA kicked me off my date. The only available re-schedule was in the fall.
Fall:
Another "nostalgia" race was held three weeks later, so we ended up competing with eachother for racers.
SEC football is huge here, and the Georgia Bulldogs are 30 miles away... the hotels were full. One racer told me he had to go 40 miles in the other direction to get rooms, and other racers told me they couldn't find rooms so they didn't come.
This year Goodguys has schedule a nostalgia race in Bowling Green in September. I can't compete with that.
So a move earlier in the year was the right choice.
Track was full for the rest of September.
August? Racers were unanimous: "We won't race in Atlanta in August."
July? See above.
June: Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green in the middle of the month. Racers budget and travel money goes there... they won't risk breaking at my event prior to the HRR.
May: Track is booked for Chevy High show, Southern Nationals, closed the week before the Southerns, and rented for the NE Georgia Swap Meet the first Saturday. The track IS available the week after the Southerns, but I've been to that dance once already, and don't need to go back.
That puts us to April 24-25. Which, I believe, will be a very good date for the event--2 months before HRR, first big nostalgia race of the year, guys can tune for the Southerns, the Chevy High and the Hot Rod Reunion, and the weather is nice.

Figuring all that out didn't happen in half an hour.

 

I know you didn't have to explain all that, but glad that you did. Help people understand the decisions once you see the other point of view.

 

To bad we couldn't get a "Pink Slip" class to work out somehow.
Heads up.
No payout.
Participant would have to drive their cars to the cruise in the night before. At the cruise in, they will receive 1 or 2 pink slips.
The next day (at the race) the pink slip class can then challenge each other to race for pinks....or just call the class up and let them race amongst themselves. Participants race till they're outta slips. Last guy standing wins the class.
Logistically it'd be a bit much to work out though.......

 

It does boggle the mind that in the ATL metro the HAMB type car count is not very big. If you think about Austin or Charlotte they blow us away for nostalgia cars. Look at Caffeine and Octane - get up at 5am to get a spot and there will only be about 6 HAMB friendly cars there.

 

Guess this is gonna be a case of "The bit dog always hollers", as I'm sure I'm the one Brad has reffered to as being in the discussion here now but not even at the last 2 Gear Jams, and that's true.
The first? my car, BGII, was still under construction. And @ 77 yrs. old that can be and often is slow, seems to take me 2 days to do what I once did in 2 hrs! LOL
The 2nd year? BGII built and had been driven, but had a bad case of clutch problems, which I finally solved after God only knows how many times out and back in for that heavy ass cast iron case Ford Toploader. And that ain't easy at my age with no lift, LOL.
Plus no one actually got thru to my head with the info about rules being relaxed for slower cars to the extent Brad has explained it to me and everybody else this time, so I really didn't give a rat's ass whether I went or not.
But barring any unexpected setbacks that I can't resolve in time, I'll be there, buying a show car ticket for what ain't exactly a show car, and making fun runs.
Scott Mech, your pink slip runs also sound like fun.
And BTW, I'm an ex Marine, and "If we ain't bitching, we ain't breathing".

 

I'll make sure we've got a sun dial to time your passes!

 

Semper Fi ya grumpy old Marine

In the new Hot Rod Deluxe there is a pic of the Mazmanian car where the guys are on the ground changing tires. Made me think of your grumpy old ass.