Technical 56 Plymouth 230 flat six no start

Ian: I dumped 5 gal. of fresh stuff in 2 days ago but the small amount that was already in the tank was at least 6 years old. I did sniff the filler pipe before putting the new gas in and it didn't smell bad plus I did pump some of it out to check fuel pump operation and it seemed fine as well. That said, I don't know if bad unleaded regular smells the same as bad leaded used to. Thanks for your input!

 

Thanks ClayMart! Will keep that in mind.

 

Have you tried Ether ?

 

Ether should make it fire, but won't keep it running.

In that case, I'd be looking inside the carb.
6 year old gas could have plugged the jets, etc.

 

You have enough compression, barely. If you could get it to run and warm up the compression might come up.

Next is to see you have spark and that it is happening at the right time. TDC is close enough. Use the screwdriver down the #6 cylinder method, this is foolproof. Timing marks can move or change.

Make sure the spark is happening when the cyl is on the compression stroke, it is possible to be 180 degrees out and not know it unless you check.

If you have a good spark it should fire even if you have to pour a little gas down the carburetor.

By the way if the spark plugs get dirty and coated with gas and oil they may not fire. The only sure way to clean them is with a sandblaster. If you have a compressor you can sand blast them with a little "spot blaster" made for bodywork, cost under $20. Make sure you inspect them under a strong light and pick out any bits of sand.

If you have compression, spark, and gas the engine has to start. It has no choice.

If I was there I would have it eating out of my hand in an hour or 2, or know the reason why.

 

Haven't tried ether yet Ian but it was suggested to try WD40 which I did with no result. Will score some ether and give it a shot. There is a good strong stream from the carb's spray nozzle so I think the normal fuel delivery is fine. Thanks for your additional help!

 

Motors manual sez 120 on compression. Did you have the throttle open for the test? You might think about pulling to start it.

 

Many thanks for your additional counsel Rusty! Will try the #6 screwdriver trick. The spark is no screamin' hell but it is there on all six plugs which are brand new. I've pulled them several times and they all appear dry and clean. I do have a 60 gal. compressor so will keep the "spot blaster" in mind.

And, Rusty if I could afford it I would fly you out here first class, put you up in our finest hotel, buy you the best dinner and set you up with our best hooker if you could get this damn engine to start!

 

On the question of fuel freshness.........I fought and fought a '63 Falcon Sprint 260 several times to get it to run. Drained most of the old gas (maybe 2 years old, and added several gallons of fresh fuel. New fuel pump, rebuilt the carb etc., would not run on tank gas. Pour fresh gas in carb....vroom....switch back to fuel pump supply....no go!.. Do not underestimate the role deteriorated modern fuels will play in getting your engine to start. No doubt you DO have other factors....just suggesting not to underestimate this one.

Ray

 

Ok ive started at least a hundred of those IRWIPT (it ran when I parked it)zombie vehicles. I never leave the engine hooked to the gas tank. I suspend a lawn mower tank so as to gravity feed the carb. And use gas that has 1/2 pint two cycle oil mixed per gallon. I unhook all the wires from the starter and generator etc. I set up two batterys one to crank the starter. and the other to fire the ignition. starting fluid is a bad idea. it drys out the cyls & can even sieze the pistons. I bought a 48 dodge two ton pilot house cab truck. The engine wasn't stuck. bought it at the verkler estate auction on a Saturday many years ago cost $100. Sunday we went and hooked up a small tank and was certain of fire and gas. this truck has the stomp pedal starter. My son stomped the pedal and I worked the throttle under the hood. 12 volts on a 6 volt starter. It began to hit and soon picked up and ran. blew mice nest out of the tailpipe. so we let it run at a high idle. grabbed the chain saw and cut away the 6 inch trees that where growing up through the frame. no brakes but that don't matter it has a emergency brake. When I put it in gear it spun the back tires and jumped up & down. the front brake shoes where rusted to the drums. Beat the crap out of them with a BFH and they finally broke loose. And I drove that truck from black rock ark all the way home 6 miles east of ravenden springs. 30 miles. the front drums got hot and where smoking the flat spotted tires got out of time with each other and it wobbled like a clown car. Wednesday my son stopped at Verklers to pick up the title. the woman there asked him when are you going to come get that truck? My son said Dad got it running and drove it home Sunday. She went outside and looked and exclaimed that truck has been sitting there for 25 years! I think You screwed up buy circulating that old gas through your engine. at best you need to clean the carb fuel punp & gas tank. that gummy crappy old stale gas might have made the valve stems sticky and you will have to tear it down and do a valve job. Gas and diesel lose their octaine & cetaine very quickly.

 

what - old wolf - said....use a small lawnmower tank to fuel pump....sure helps....

 

Hnstray, old wolf and stillrunners: Thanks for your united vote for new fuel! I have a small tank on my engine test stand that I can use and I will suck all the old stuff out of the carb's float bowl. As an aside, yesterday I pulled and checked the starter as I felt it could be spinning faster but other than some brush particles and some attention to the commutator I didn't find anything that looked out of sorts. Thanks again guys! I'll get this sucker running yet!

 

Thanks for your reply sunbeam! Actually no I didn't have the throttle open (getting forgetful in my old age!). Yes, pulling would be a good option but I live on a very busy street and the car isn't licensed at present.

 

Here's an idea... Put a V8 in it. Then you can put the 6 with bell housing and starter on a crate or dolly' and play with it.. Meanwhile you can go do some (Roasters)...

 

You have gotten some really great info so far, and I'm surprised you haven't got it to start....so, I have one question that has not been addressed, is this a positive or negative ground system, and is it wired correctly to the battery....they will almost start if hooked up backwards....don't ask how I know

 

I bought a 55 Plymouth with the flathead 6 engine that had set for 40 years. I changed out the plugs, plug wires, points, condenser, dist. cap, sprayed oil in the cylinders, ran fresh fuel to the engine from a gas can, tried to stat it but it just cranked. Ran a compression test, and 3 cylinders read 0. It will crank with stuck valves, but wont fire. If it were me, I would have given up with frustration by now, and pulled the engine, and had it rebuilt. Good luck, you have more patience than me.

 

I have revived several of these old engines and have never been beaten yet. Typically, I can get them running in a few hours at a cost of about $10 bucks or less. I find that cheaper, and less work, than installing a new engine.

The critical thing is do you have good compression? Do you have oil pressure? Then chances are the engine is good. Even with iffy compression once you get the engine running, warmed up, and let the oil circulate they will often come back to life.

 

If the compression is zero I bet you are right with the stuck valve. I got a flathead with 5 stuck valves running like a dream by putting some PB blaster in the cylinders and having a friend crank it over while I stood there with a wood dowel and a mallet and played whack-a-mole with the valves through the spark plug holes until they were all free.

I'd try a compression test again after pumping some 10-30w (or whatever motor oil you have around), the thicker oil will help it make a better seal if its the rings.

Good luck!

EDIT: Additional thoughts;

To clean plugs my favorite method is to spray them down with carb cleaner (not brake cleaner) then hold them to a torch until they stop sputtering and popping fire. Also make sure the mech. advance in your distributor isn't stuck - probably won't keep it from starting but might make it harder.

 

Thanks for your replies everyone! I am now VERY pleased to announce that:
IT'S ALIVE!!!!!! THE BEAST HAS RISEN FROM THE DEAD!!!!
Albeit on only four cylinders so far but it stumbled along for about 15 to 20 seconds a few times! All of you who put forward the "bad gas" theory stand tall and take a bow along with a hearty slice of my heartfelt thanks! I pulled the carb apart and blew out all the passages (bottom of the float bowl had some mung in it and smelled BAD!). I then hooked up my test engine stand tank filled with freshly purchased gas and started cranking. It didn't start kicking right away but after a few minutes, "Bang!.......Pop!...... Holy Shit.!! Tried again, same thing plus spitting out the carb. Eventually after holding the choke plate fully open and pumping the throttle it caught on about four cylinders and ran despite spitting continuously out the carb for about half a minute. YES!!!! SUCCESS!!!!

Plan of attack now is to free up the stuck valve(s), pull the tank for cleaning and blow out the gas line.

Thanks again to EVERYONE who has responded to my plea for help! The HAMB ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Stay tuned for further updates!

 

So glad you got it, there are only a few better feelings than getting an engine running that has been fighting you. Better feelings include your first drive and.... I'm sure you can come up with a few but it is up there!

 

coolcoolcool.....and don't forget to check - or have someone - look at the oil gauge....hopefully it's moving a little bit past 30....

 

AV8 Dave,
Thanks for posting this thread. I have a '42 Fargo that I have had a similar experience with. A royal pain in the ass! When the rain stops here in New West I'll get back to it. Spent a few days last summer and finally said piss on it (even that didn't work!). But all the suggestions directed at you I will borrow and maybe I'll get the old bugger to start. I really want to try out the 3:54 gears I installed last summer!

 

Definitely "3spd"! Like winning the lottery or a real good piece of t....(you know!). And the link to your "nailhead no-start" post was a BIG help! Many thanks!! I read it all and jotted down and tried the suggestions I hadn't thought of. The HAMB archieves are a GREAT resource!

 

Thanks stillrunners! It only has the stock indicator lite but I could hook up a gauge without too much problem and I had changed the oil and filter out back before the timing gear explosion. Thanks again!

 

You're more than welcome Fortunateson! One of the great things about being here is that we can all help each other out with our own knowledge and experience and when it's all pooled together it makes an awesome arsenal of possible solutions to the many varied problems that can arise with these old vehicles we all love so much! Good luck!

 

Dave if you can get it to run at a fast idle for 10 or 15 minutes there is a good chance it will smooth out and run half decent.

 

Thanks Rusty! I pulled the rear side cover off yesterday and sure as eggs, there was #4's exhaust valve stuck wide open. Tried some PB Blaster and selective tapping with a brass drift and hammer but she's stuck pretty solid so the next step will be off with the head and play "whack a mole" like "3spd" did. I probably have an intake that is at least partially open as well as it was spitting out the carb. Stay tuned for further developments!

 

If the valve is stuck a light tap with a hammer and it should snap down. Be sure to hit the valve exactly in the center or you could bend it. If it does not snap down it could be rusty but you would know that from looking at it.

It might be possible to pry it down from the valve chamber without taking the head off.

 

Remember there is two points od adjustment on these upper and lower !

 

Thanks Rusty! I was thinking of a brass drift in the center of the valve and first a light and then successively heavier taps with a small hammer proceeded each time by PB Blaster. Hopefully I will get the head off today!