Hey everyone, I am working on getting my 63 cadillac up and running and my starter decided to act all funny. I turn it over and it wasn't fireing(no gas or something dumb) but when i decided to stop, the motor decided to keep going until the battery was dead. I replaced the starter solenoid and took a look at the starter and all looks good with the neoprene washer and the wiring. I was also using a starter switch on the motor side of the car(don't know if that makes a difference, but i tried the key as well...same problem) Anyone have any insight into my problem? Thanks Mark
It could be a couple of things but it sounds like the starter solenoid is being supplied with current continuously.Did you check the two other terminals on the solenoid to make sure they aren't arcing across to the battery lead?It could be external(crud around the poles)or possibly internal. Another possibility could be a bad ignition switch. If I remember correctly,this is a little ground strap that runs from the starter to the frame on the early 60's Cadillacs;is that intact?Usually if it isn't the car won't turn over at all but it sounds like current is making it's way to ground through the starter with no way to disconnect it which is usually a solenoid.
How's your battery? A buddy of mine had the same problem on a '62 Pontiac with an old weak battery years ago. Put in a new battery and no more trouble. Maybe coincidence but worth checking.
yes, i can take the key out and it will keep cranking over. When i replaced the starter solenoid i re taped all the wireing to ensure it isn't arcing. My battery is new and all charged up. mark
Leave the negative cable a little loose, so you can lift it and save the battery drain off. I don't know this car but some portion of the circuit is "latching on" once activated. Here's a good test, try to crank, see if it "runs on", then lift the negative cable, watch it stop. Reattach the negative it should not crank anymore. If this is true post back.
Last time that happened to me (60 Pontiac), the copper disc in the solenoid was arcing and I had to tear it apart a couple times and reverse, then file flat, the disc and contacts. Which is why this puzzles me a little, you said you replaced the solenoid. When I did that it solved the problem... but it's something else you can look at. Apparently as things get old if the resistance increases it will make the contacts in the solenoid work almost like a welder and eventually it sticks good enough it's stronger than the spring in it, causing it to stick and run on like that. Something to check out, anyhow -
This happened to me many years ago. Did all of the above to no avail . Turned out that it was the plunger that goes into the solenoid was binding . Ended up replacing it to solve the poblem . Put the old solenoid back on and replace the entire starter . Save the new solenoid for future use.
Did you try the negative cable thing? If you lift the negative cable and reattach it and the starter cuts back in, I believe all the solonoid answers. If the starter stops, we'll need to lift some control wires........
I had one do that after adding the 400 bobweight under a 350 wheel. It was hanging the starter gear out.
My starter is still running on. I tore it apart and still can't figure it out, the solenoid is new and everything else in the starter looks pretty good other than normal wear and tear. Has anyone else had this problem? I checked the wiring and the ignition wiring is giving it out correctly so that rules out switch and ignition wiring. thanks. mark
Install another starter (preferably a known good one) and see if the problem remains. Post results...interesting prob...
Unfortunately I don't have another starter and they are not easy to come by up here in canada, unless Ibuy new for $300 of course at the local parts shop.
May need to re-wire it. could be a pinched wire from when you reinstalled shorting out. does the new solenoid have an "R" and "S" terminal? are they crossed? I don't know, but i would try new wires separate from the car harness so they are just hanging out. run straight off the battery, if it solves the problem start back tracking on e wire at a time.
If I read right, you pulled the negative cable, reattached it, and it went back to cranking? The starter solonoid contact is getting welded or stuck. I also read you "took it apart" and "it all looks good" so let's prove it. Make a wire chart etc., and get the control wires off the starter. IF the starter is in cable neg. to bolted frame, pos. to hot, and jumper the hot switch, the starter should engage and disengage. IF the starter is in the car just lift the hot switch wires and jumper hot, the starter should engage and disengage same way. IF not the main big electrical contact is jamming once made.
WHOA, sorry big pete, i am a little lost, are you saying to make extensions of all my wires and hook them up in sequences to test them, hoping to prove that one stays on? Is it possible for the big wire to be giving juice all the time? is that a possible issue? What would cause that to be faulty? Thanks Mark.
Mark - I've got a fair amount of experience in this... The starter circuit if very simple - you've got a high-current (big wire) circuit to the starter, and a low current (control) circuit which opens/closes the high-current circuit. EVERY starter system (with the exception of the foot ****ons on Model A era) work thataway. When the starter continues to crank without ***istance of the control circuit, it's because the high current circuit is closed - it's as simple as that. There are several reasons why this happens, but the most common one on 'old' solenoids is the big-***ed flat copper washer used to make the circuit literally arc-welds itself across the two contact points. On old solenoids, I reverse the contact washer, clean the contacts and the prob goes away. On new solenoids - there is but one cure: THROW THE DAMNED THING OUT! Most new solenoids come from China, and are of a piss-poor quality. DO NOT think that because you bought a new one that it's hunky-dory; I've had to go thru several cheap solenoids to find one that works; failure rate on the ten-buck, garden variety starter solenoid is around 50%. Find a GOOD auto parts shop and ask them to get you a good ol' fashioned, MADE IN USA solenoid. The problem will go away - I promise. If it doesn't - I'll pay for the new solenoid.
OK, look at it this way: On a typical GM starting circuit, the main wire (heavy battery cable) from the battery to the solenoid is ALWAYS hot. The "trigger" which normally actuates the solenoid is the wire from the ignition switch to the "S" terminal on the starter. So, what do we know? One terminal SHOULD always have power (battery cable), and one terminal SHOULD only have momentary power (when you hit the key). So, first check to see that this is so. I have seen three causes for this problem: 1) The solenoid is faulty; it has either welded the contacts together inside, or the plunger is galled and/or hanging up. Check the plunger return spring; is it weak, broken, or missing? 2) The ignition switch is faulty; it is sending power to the "S" terminal at all times. Disconnect the wire to the "S" terminal and hook up a jumper lead; leave the other end loose for now. Reattach your battery. If the starter still spins, the solenoid MUST be the culprit. If not, touch the loose end of the jumper lead to the positive battery post. If it now starts normally, you either have a defective ignition switch, OR: 3) The battery cable (positive to starter) has most likely melted to the "S" wire. I have seen this before due to exhaust heat, excessive amp draw, etc. Unbundle the wires and check for burned/melted insulation. If nothing there, keep checking the entire starting circuit. Also look for a melted junction block at the ignition switch; I've seen this too. Hope this helps.
You need to logon to this 63-64 Cad message board. There are some serious Cad guru's on there. Here is the link: http://groups.msn.com/196364CadillacCommunity/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us These guys know 63-64 Cadillacs.
Or if the gear is held out it will run on. Try the starter out of the car with a set of jumpers. Shimming may fix it.
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