Can you still build a FED at home that the NHRA will let you run?

Roothawg, That's a fair question I agree......

I do suppose that's a "loaded" statement (pun intended) - by enormous I mean things CAN and do get out of hand quick. I spent just over a grand for the pile of 'moly tubing - that was the VERY LEAST of my expenses. It's all the little pieces that can nickle and dime you to death and THAT assumes you are going ULTRA BUDGET like mine - now of course if you're talking aspirated that HELPS a BUNCH to take the $ out. I may very well start off with a LESSER motor just to get me out - but that's a double edged sword as well because sooner or later I'm gonna need the "better" parts.

Check out the prices for the "dated" parts and you'll start to see what I mean. Belts, restraints, diapers, halon - it all just keeps adding up and eventually ALL those parts are virtually worthless. Much less the hard parts - for instance I found a "killer" shifter that I wanted - problem -it'd set me back about 500 bucks!!!!! For a stupid shifter!!!! Sure it was NICE - VERY NICE but no way can I toss that kind of money at such a "small" item - SO I made my own - call me a cheapskate!!!!!!! Virtually EVERY component can run you down THAT road - a good fuel pump mount is a hundred or two - yep I made mine - what about a blowere starter - those are about 1,200 or MORE NEW - I scored a near new one on ebay one for a couple hundered - Lucked out. Hardened input shafts - better planetaries - couplers - shafts - axles - spool -aftermarket housing- rear brakes (no dual master here!! ) A lot of these parts you really can't skimp on - plus with the USED market going TOTALLY nuts sometimes the prices are absurd!!! I am pretty lucky as I have acess to a Bridgeport and lathes - as a result I make ALOT of my parts - stuff the "real" guys would laugh at me for doing - but I have to save a nickle anywhere I can. And of course I run into the ocasional guy (ok this almost NEVER happens but it did at least once for me!!!) people who'd rather help someone in his struggle rather than cash in on their latest "goldmine" - people like our very own IAN - who fixed me up with a set of rear rims for CHEAP!!!!! - BTW Ian - if you're reading this - I STILL have them and they WILL DEFINITELY be on the CAR when I get it out. That leads me to slicks - liners - etc. can you say CHA CHING!!!!!!!!! Steering box, spindles, magneto, fuel pumps,injectors, it goes on and on and on - heck we never even talked about screwing together a motor........This is one reason why the HAMBSTER are such a KILLER idea. Truely a budget way to race "ultra cool" stuff.

I think last year Hot Rod magazine did an article "showing us" all how a "budget" dragster could be built buying mostly used parts off the internet. I can't rememeber but after all their deals and freebies they bragged how they kept it under 25K or was it 50K I dunno -but yeah either way I'd call that enormous. I could teach them a lesson or two about what budget means - but I sure as hell wouldn't sell magazines!!!!! .....get a hammer and beg a free sheet of 3003h14.......start pounding...pound some more.... repeat until it looks like something......yawn.

So I suppose ENORMOUS INVESTMENT might be a fair term to use after all - but stated better it's either ENORMOUS money or ENORMOUS time. I don't have enormous money in mine - comparitively speaking, but I do have quite a bit of time in it. Of course I had to learn as I went - and still haven't scratched the surface of what I need to know!

I know just enough to know that I don't know!!!! But I'm trying......

p.s. here's a picture of my FREE "500 dollar" shifter.

 

I know it adds up...believe me. Just wondering what your biggest expense was.

 

Current rumor has the NHRA folks limiting anything made of mild steel to 9.90 or slower! I think its a good idea I just hope they fade into it not all at once.

Cool ass on the fed,, I always liked the "Streamlined Chute pack" You are a brave soul to try that for your first attempt at metal forming!!! Good job!!

 

Bump....for a good question.

 

#1 motor (total budget)
#2 trans (also budget)
#3 rear (budget - factory housing - nothing else)
#4 safety equipment

I'll know exact numbers when I actually finish it until then I am REALLY trying to IGNORE those facts

Also this ignores all the tools I bought since they can be used on more fun projects. But believe me I have a spent a small fortune in tools/equipment and I bought 90% of it at KILLER DEAL prices. I bet right now I spent as much on "stuff" as I did the car - but having to farm out all that would NOT have been cheaper and now I have the equipment and most importanly the fun of the experience. And BELIEVE me the fun of building it really is worth the headaches - IMHO.

 

I just talked to my buddy Dave and his 2006 rule book in the general regulation section still shows both specs.However as an aside note it also says in the altered & F/C section where the cage specs. are,10.00 and slower and rear engine dragsters and roadsters section 10.00 and slower which doesn't make a whole lotta sense.
All I know is what the local chassis inspector made it a point for me to know when I told him what I was up to and although I wouldn't go as far as to call him my freind we know each other well enough to say hey and chat on the phone once in a while and he has always gone out of his way in the past for me and anyone I ever knew to help 'em get their ducks in a row so they could get a tag.Maybe I'll call the division feild office tomorow and see if there is more to know.
Personaly I don't agree with the fella who is glad to be seeing them phased out.(1)A mild steel car to me is just as safe as Moly to a point.7.49 and faster is probably that point.(2)It's gonna cost a whole lotta people a whole lot more money to play and make their present cars that (even a mild steel car) cost a minor fortune to own or build pretty worthless.
Not to get on a rant here,but if the mild steel thing is true,which I believe it to be that is just a pure unadulterated "F__K YOU" from No Hot Rodders Allowed and Wally is prolly rolling in his grave about now.
Maybe more tomorow if I get time to check further.
It's amazing the path a simple question can meander down.

 

What 97 said about Nitro Bob. He builds them from scratch to your size. Knows more about drag racing than God. Crusty old fart lives about a mile from us. Would be a Hamber if I could get him a little more into computers.
When he builds a frame there is only one acceptable standard, zero tolerance. Loves to teach drag racing to kids. If you can't do it yourself, call Bob.

 

Damn Dude, You swing attitude like a sledge hammer!!

My point is this,, safety should never be a cost issue.

Racers will spend thousands to pick up a tenth of a second, but will buy then cheapest belts, helmets and suits. Same goes for a chassis.

Your point is taken, just given my side,, and just so ya know,, I'm a lazy SOB I don't want the extra work this would create.

 

You could always race at a non-NHRA track.
What I see happening is a whole load of cars that are capable of running 8.20's with throttle stops on em ...oh let's say around 10.01.

 

There are lots of cars for sale, racing junk, elake, locals. Just remember if these sanctions are going in place , it might be hard to sell when the time comes.

 

Yeah, I read the rulebook and saw the same quote, figured it was a misprint 'cause it sure didn't make any sense.

It's not the only statement in the book that isn't clear either. For instance painting of the chassis/rollcage is permitted in the book, but some folks have been told by nhra that it's a no no.

 

I'm trying to remember who our HAMB NHRA tech rep is......
He's a Canadian right? OldsRocket?

 

Yea its not that big a deal if you're a talented fabricator.

The deal is you get a rule book, build it to spec, then have a tech guy meet you at the races, he doesn't know you so you get closer scrutiny than say his cousin clem, but it passes and he slaps a sticker on it.

An FED is next inline after the Altered (or during) here in KC. I got a friend that's a dreamer.

Gee that's not what my new 2006 rule book says. yes everything should be mandrel bent, but a tig weld is not required either, you just aren't allowed to grind welds.

For mild steel you use heavier wall tubeing, than you would use with chromolly.

Here's another thing i found out the other week, Altereds are not required to be center steer, its the popular mode but not required.
__________________

 

A lot of this depends on how quick/fast you want to go. At various E.T. breaks, the rules change. Looking at the rule book, at 7.49 seconds, SFI specs are referenced, and those are not in the NHRA rule book. If you go slower than that, I don't see anything that prohibits mild steel. However, I am not a a chassis certifier nor am I a tech. You only need a certified chassis if your car is quicker than 10.00 sec.

 

The throttle stop cars are the reason for a lot of the wierd rules in the NHRA rulebook. Hell you got guys running 10s and blowing through the lights @ 140+.

Problem with going to another sanctioning body to race is that they all (with few exceptions) use the NHRA rule book. That's the reason I chose to go NHRA spec with the roadster, I may want to race more than once a year at MOKAN. Hell I don't want to always race with you guys and know before I get there that I'm going to loose.

 

GO-rilla,

Yes I built it -all of it - I'm still finishing off the last few items. Here's a shot I really like of the chutepack.....

 

I felt obligted to clear the air regarding Mild steel Cars and checked the book and made a couple of calls.
I just spoke with a division Tech Director and apparently there has been some misinterpretation and confusion in regards to the rules as regard "Center Seat and Steer" mild steel cars due to the new wording in the NHRA rulebooks .
Mild steel "RED's,Fed's,Altereds,Roadsters,Street Roadsters and Funny Cars" are all still legal to 7.50 with the same mild steel or Chromoly spec. that has been in place for many years,even though the verbage in the rulebook would seem to suggest otherwise,such is not the case,Ie "10.00 and slower".
I am sorry for the incorrect statements and confusion I created regarding this issue.
I was operating on a misinterpretation of the rules regarding mild steel cars as related to me an unamed 3rd party(which by the way was about to have me putting more "pipe" in my car than I wanted to)LOL
So have fun and don't be scared of mild steel .
Thank ya very much for reading.

 

Y/B
Thanks you saved me a lot of scouring and searching to see if I missed something.

hell it made for good discussion anyway.

 

Man f__k all this shit!
The waters have muddied again.It's a classic he says this,he says that.
I'm namin' names.LOL
Charlie Cathcart says, no certs for mild steel center seat Altereds,Funny Cars,Diggers,limited to 10.00 flat.
Sam I Am says his man in Califoria (Div.7)wants him to step up with his mild steel Altered and get a cert.
Jim Collins SE Division Tech director says it's a misnomer due to verbage it's all been cleared up.
So I put up an apology and a post to clarify things a bit.Then entering stage left is.......
Jim Allen SC Division Tech Director who says no certs. for mild steel altereds and funny cars.No faster than 10.00 flat.
F__k it.Apparently no one I know who should know can agree.
As bad as I hate to,I'm just gonna go ahead and build my car left hand steer with a "roll bar" geared towards a 12 point cage so that if I decide to put the big bullet in and go fast I can just add the other tubing later and step up without the horse shit.
There are just too damn many conflicting opinions for me to say anything definitive one way or another on this subject.So I respectfully withdraw all previous statements regarding mild steel center seat and steer vehicles from consideration regarding this subject.
These are my final words on the subject,F__k It.LOL

 

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Thanks for the clairification! As an additional comment to all this if you have any square/rectangle tubing in the main frame section of the car it'll get certified to only 8.20. To be certified for quicker than 8.20's the main chassis has to be all round tube. We were told that when we got our vintage NHRA C/A ('66 Rambler) chassis certified (IHRA).....and uhhh, no it'll never run 8's this side of being dropped out of a cargo plane.

-Bigchief.

 

I have an older rule book. It states: Any car running between 7.50 and 9.99 must have the chassis certified. In the same rule book is a general layout for roll bar design in this et category. The reason that people don't use mild steel in dragsters is more about weight. You can't use the same wall thickness of tubing in mild steel as compared to 4130. Even though this isn't the latest rule book, I never saw them back down on rules so if anything the et range may have increased so the slower cars have to be cert. also.

 

WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF NHRA RACING.......
I have struggled with this for years.I was in the process of building a SS/GT frt wheel drive conversion car a few years back and called tech directors and even the NHRA for info and direction and basically what it came down to was build the car and see if it pass tech and what we dont like you can change after its inspected.I dont have the kinda of money to spend 20000.00 and then spend 5000.00 grand more making changes.So they do have good rules as far as saftey and insurance and all but sometimes as with anything else in the world a team of lawyers are needed to inteturp the jargan.I have been kickin the idea of a roadster or altered around and selling my current S/ST car.May just wait and see how this pans out.
Also like porknbeaner stated its unbelieveable to see a S/Gas car go 9.90 at 171mph on the stop.
Good luck in your quest to build it and the car with the chute pack is so bitchin.
Shoe

 

Yo Baby, although he has one foot in, Wally is still out of his grave.

 

If you want to be postive about what a class or type is running get the SFI specs. that tells you all that has to be certified. sizes of tubing ,where they are placed. when the tech inspector comes to your shop, ask them if you can see their notes on that spec. there will be several pages, not avail to the builder. just a thought.

 

Yes it can be done - my chassis was NHRA certified TODAY!!!!!

100% built at home in the garage.

 

Jacin,
did you ask them about the interpretation of the "wrap around" ruling?

Roo

 

Roo, I had the same Tech Inspector and the first words he spoke were, "So do you like it better now?" And I told him the absolute truth - I certainly do!!!! I guess the irony is that after having done the single plate rear mount I had second thoughts and regretted not placing the bolts into double shear. And now that they are - all is well again. This particular tech was run by ( I think) a Husband and wife "team" - really nice people - while waiting for my turn and filling out paperwork, I did mention that I still cannot understand the interpretation (by the words used in the SFI manual) and also mentioned that a picture would be worth a thousand words. I know the Tech Guys don't necessarily write the manuals, but I figured if enough people ask them something - there's a possibility it will filter back.
All in all it was a GREAT day a real milestone for a first time builder like me.
The more Drag Racing people I meet - the more NEAT PEOPLE I get to meet.

 

Congrats Jacin!!!!!!

I was just talking to Sue about it. I was wondering how you did. Email me about next weekend.

 

not to revive the dead but i have come to believe that neither association cert. people are in agreement about anything either from reigon to reigon or even in some cases event to event . recently quit working at a track because they thought they could overcome falling gate revenues by raising gate revenues by raising prices on the faithful,didntwant anything but outlaw bracket type cars that thier drinking buddies run "nobody wants to pay to come out and watch a bunch of dragsters and altereds run" it all depends on what you want to do it can be done the two things you need to keep in mind are build it safe overkill is o.k. never try to cut cost on safety the price is too high and if a divisional tech says a material is o.k. get that by some means that will get it on paper. then if local turns that down it can be refered to the sanctioning body and possibly get clarified saving future problems for you and others. it may be that the boss is geeting correct information from the track