1952-59 Ford LS swap 56 Ford?

Has anyone swapped an LS into their Ford?

Here's why I'm thinking about putting a Chevy in my Ford. My daily driver is an 06 Pontiac GTO with an LS2/4L65E. It's 400hp/400tq stock. With a cam and bolt ons 500/475 is easy.

I can get a late model truck 6.0 with trans, wiring, PCM, etc for around $1500. $3500 for upgrades, tuning, having motor and trans mounts fab'd, drive line, fuel system, headers, etc.

That $5k with an fe stoker only gets me a long block. And I'd still have a 3 speed auto, and carb.

My project car is a 56 Ford Fairlane club sedan. It currently has a dead 390 and C6.

 

Why not this bolted up to an AOD? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...iYlHV27LXBwsI3ylv3u80ctslOYaAN-0qYBoCOwvw_wcB Almost all the fab is eliminated,it has a warranty and you can flip the FE and C6 to help fund it and stay all Ford.

 

The fe has water in it. So other than the performer 390 intake, there's not any money to be had. The c6 is a stock truck trans with a cheap converter. So there another couple hundred bucks.

How much am I going to spend outfitting that 408? Alternator, water pump, Intake, distributor, etc. Not counting the cost of a built aod, and convertor. And I'd have less power, and no fuel injection.

 

The last time we had this Chevy-in-a-Ford discusion, somebody called Jeff an A-hole for his keep-it-all-Ford views. Hopefully that won't happen again, there is a lot of guys that share Jeff's views on this or any other Ford forum, myself included. I sure had to bite my tongue on that one.
With that said. I had to scroll back 11 pages to find this thread Paddycake had going:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...uild-thread-aka-doing-it-the-hard-way.902648/
I've been curious about how that project was going...no updates for 5 months.

 

Personally have no problems with an off brand swap. Back in the day many of us swapped in various GM engines into our Fords for the same reasons you're doing this today. Easy on the wallet, plenty of horsepower, and incredible aftermarket support. But just as the SBC in a Ford swap has been overdone the LS swap is quickly becoming equally uninspiring. There are just way too many Ford mod motors out there waiting to be used. Don't get me wrong am not putting down your choice. Its your car and it only has to please you just don't expect guys in this group to be as excited as you are. True hot rodders always have made do with what was/is available to them and in your case its an LS so go with it. These kind of decisions are what separates a lot of us from ''restorers''. Good luck to you and enjoy your build.

 

Thanks for the replies. I read just read through paddycakeftw's swap thread. It looks like some work, but nothing too crazy.

I thought about doing a modular swap. But they're so wide, they lack displacement, there's too many cams, parts cost more, etc. If 03/04 cobra engines were cheap and plentiful I'd do that swap. But the cheap and afordable donors are 260-300hp, and a 500hp 5.4 sohc isn't that cheap.

 

My goals are 475hp/450tq @the flywheel and a 125hp wet nitrous plate system for the track.

 

Or maybe bring back the "Fordillac" from back in the day.1970 Cadillac Eldorado 500 cubic inch was stock at 400 HP 525 lbs of torque @2400 RPM I guess it's that H.A.M.B. "traditional" thing that turns me off of mod motors.

 

And that fits?

 

I would not be surprised if it would not be that bad a swap,I ran into a guy that had one in a '64 Chevy C10 at the time I had a '65 C-10 with a 350 and side by side it looked like there was more room under the hood with the Caddy also a 500 Caddy is only 40lbs heavier than a SBC.Just for comparison an FE Ford weighs 625 lbs is 32" in length the Caddy 500 is 600 lbs and 30" long and also has a front mounted distributor. A 455 Buick is also 600 lbs and 28" long,check out the numbers on this build http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0906-buick-455-engine-bolt-ons/

 

I'm still hard at work, Texas. I just mostly update on the 1954ford.com site instead of here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this forum, I guess I just like that the other is exclusive to my year of car. I have been thinking of starting a new thread here and letting my old LS install one die. I'm doing way more than an engine swap this time.

Honda, I like Fords, Chevys, and whatever else goes fast. I never understood taking sides - all V8s are cool, and all old cars are cool. Anyway, I went with the LS because I wanted something light, fuel injected, and different. LS swaps are way more common now but as far as I know, CrazyLegs and I are the only ones to put LS motors in '54s so far (at least in the forums I visit). A big Caddy or a 5.4L would be cool, but I get the feeling that you know as well as I do that the quickest, cheapest way to your EFI horsepower goal is with a H/C/I LS motor. Not to mention weight savings over any of those other, heavier blocks. Your nitrous shot would just be gravy.

 

I don't see a better way to get efi, OD, and the power I want for close to the same money. I was looking at $5-6k for just an FE stroker. But I have a problem, I'm not a fabricator/welder. So I'm trying to figure out what it's going to cost me to have someone else do the rough install. Then I can do the rest. Which brings me to my next idea.

Would the LS install be easier if the car had a mustang II IFS with a rack and pinion? It seems like it would increase space for the headers and exhaust. And they're supposed to take an SBC with no issue. I need to do a disc brake conversion, lower the front, and rebuild the whole front suspension on the car anyway. So replacing it all with new parts doesn't sound that much more expensive.

Here's one I'm looking at.
http://www.dustysgarage.com/**xJW5259FordCar.html

 

The install is going to be a pain. Save some coin and stick with a Ford of sorts in it. 77-79 Lincoln Versilles spindles are a bolt in and lowers the car bout 2 inches also. Aerostar springs will lower it more. Toss an injected 351W into it and add a super charger, or twin turbos. Better yet, look for a wrecked 93-95 Lightning truck. The 351w fits with Fox mustang motor mounts.
If you ever go to resell, you will limit your buyers window.

 

Quote paddycake: "I have been thinking of starting a new thread here and letting my old LS install one die. I'm doing way more than an engine swap this time."
I hear ya on that, what started as a takeoff on your ls install thread referencing my install with the plastic mock-up block ended up being more of a total build thread.

 

We like total builds,keep it coming!

 

A '56 weighs in around 3250 with a Y-block a SBF weighs about 150 less than the Y-block so here is a Ford Fairmount more door running a SBF and AOD running a 11.57 ET just goes to show the EZ swap can run hard,specs available here: http://www.clickclickracing.com/forums/showthread.php?12231-Ran-the-Fairmont-in-True-street-this-w-e There are a whole lot of 5.0's running in the nines: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=9+second+mustang+5.0.

 

How much do you think a super charged, efi 351 and aod is going to cost? How's it going to breathe when the only headers that fit are small tube? How much power is it going to make? The lightning was only 240hp stock. Let's say the supercharger adds 50%. That's still only 360hp. About where the 6.0 LS truck motor is to start with. Not to mention sbf like to crack blocks.

I don't care about resale, this car isn't going anywhere. Besides, it's not a sunliner. It's just a 2 door post. So it's not worth that much in the first place.

 

Everything would be easier with a different front end. But like all the guys on this forum say, the '54-'56 IFS was pretty good for its day and is still a nice ride today. There are ways around the stock frame if you get creative - for example, I used the GTO oil pan on my motor because it's a front-sump design and clears the stock crossmember and steering linkage. My SBC never did that. And it's been 4 years since I did my swap - they have new and aftermarket pans that might work even better. I'd say the most expensive thing about your tentative plan would be getting long-tube headers in there, and that will be true no matter which engine you choose. But you'd probably save money by having headers made to fit the stock front end instead of swapping to a MII setup and buying pre-fab headers. Just a thought.

 

Headers included http://www.ebay.com/itm/Twin-Turbo-...005&rk=1&rkt=6&mehot=pp&sd=290993555274&rt=nc Block issue solved: http://www.blueovalindustries.com/e...KFuNb3dcMCH1Qg9hpYiD7et0XEUVnNt0zIBoC7gTw_wcB Earlier 351W and 302 blocks prior to roller cams are thicker and don't need it. AOD info:http://www.clickclickracing.com/tech mods1.pdf Or contact Silverfox for pricing on a built AOD.

 

What's it going to cost? Just a built AOD and converter is $2.5k. Ebay turbo kit $1000. 351 roller motor with decent heads, intake, cam, etc $2500-5000. That's $6500-9000. I'm liking your turbo idea though. Maybe an LS twin turbo instead of nitrous. Then I'd have the 600HP all the time, and I wouldn't have to fight with the headers.

 

Here is a base to start:https://eugene.craigslist.org/pts/5006699505.html Then http://www.oregonperformancetransmi...Category_Code=AODE&Product_Code=ORE-AODE-RBHP

 

Obviously you made up your mind, so why even ask for any input? For a daily driver, a 5.0 or 5.8 donor car could be had cheap, no suspension mods needed (ie: less cost) and the 5.0 can be made to run with an LS without much trouble. Also, no need for a computer controlled trans.
....but, being stuck on an LS cuz the"numbers" say you can, go for it and stop wasting any ones time on here asking for opinions.

 

If a 5.0 could handle more than 500fwhp without splitting in half, I'd go that way. The LS will, and at that hp level I could get away without building the trans(4L80). I'm looking for a reason to not go through all the fab work, and as a benefit keep it all Ford. I'm still thinking and will be for a while. I want to do all my research, so I know I'm making the best decision. I'm sorry if I'm wasting your time. Last year I was researching FE engines and that pushed me toward an SBF with OD. Which pushed me toward an LS with OD. I need to decide how much power I really need in the car. If 450-500 is enough, then I could go with a mostly stock 5.0 HO with twin turbos and a rebuilt AOD. And not pay someone else a bunch of money to do fab work.

 

If you are truly building a driver, why you need 450-500 hp? A cammed 302/351 with a set of ported early 351 heads, GT40's or GT40P's will give plenty of power and good mpg with and AOD.
An ***embled set of Trick flow heads can be had for less than 750 bucks.
Car could be ***embled with Autozone pieces, nothing fancy, dependable, and not full of custom fab work. As mentioned, Versilles spindles (or modified Granada, Maverick, Mustang spindles) Better steering? Manual? Maverick, Granada box. Power? 66-69 Lincoln continental box. Basically both bolt in with some pitman arm work.
A friend had a carbed 351w/c4 combo, no juice, 10.80's and driven to and from the track (and regular just driving use) Granted, it only got about 12 mpg cuz of the 4.11 rear, but had plenty of power and dependable.

 

This is starting to sound like one of those FORD vs CHEVY vs DODGE threads that used to dominate and kill many a good car site years ago. Lots of back and forth bantering with no end in site. All manufacturers build some great and not so great drivetrains pick one you either like and can afford and go spend time building rather than continuing with this rant. It serves absolutely no purpose to continue on this path.

 

This.

 

x2 on what zapato said.

 

Thanks for letting me bounce my ideas off you guys. I've got the information I need to start making a decision.

 

I put a Gen II 350 Cheve LT1 in my 56 Victoria. I converted it to a carb. I had to go electric fuel pump and electric fans because the injected engine didn't have provisions. In hind sight I should have left it Fuel Injected. You can buy a 94-96 B body GM for under $1000. They are rated at 260 hp and closer to 300 in a Camaro or Vette. My 96 Impala SS gets fuel economy similar to a minivan and will get into the 14's. With a GM Hot Cam and headers my Victoria ran 14.1 @ 99 with 3.08's and a THM 350 last fall. I have a 3.70 posi and 700r4 for the next upgrades which should put it mid - high thirteens. GenII LT1 engines are not as high tech as LS but I think are easier to install. I put a injected LT1/4L60E (4 speed auto) in our 62 Pontiac and it makes it a nice daily driver. I am just in the process of adding all of the details to make it emission legal (cats, egr, sealed gas cap, etc.). They are starting to check such things locally and issue fines, so I want to be ahead of the game.
http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?26764-LT1-into-a-56-Ford-Victoria
Pete

 

I had a 95 Caprice setup as an Impala SS Clone. The LT1 is a good engine, but parts are expensive and big power costs a lot. With basic mods it ran 14.1 in the 1/4. Which is decent for a car that weighed 4400 pounds with me in it. I'd rather not go down that road again. I thought the fairlane was a lot heavier than it is. Since it's close in weight to a Fox body mustang GT I started researching what's needed to make one run an 11 sec quarter mile. And it's not as much as i thought. A turbo or nitrous 5.0 or 5.8 with an AOD is sounding like an easier solution for about the same money.