Hi all, I have been saving money for the past year to build a stroked 351w for my 56 Fairlane. I now have the funds to do it. My question for all you who have did the Y-block to 302 and 351w is: Is the 351W worth the effort to install in the my 56 Fairlane or would it be much less of a headache to go with the 302 conversion? It isn't a money savings issue because the cost to build either engine is similar. It is whether the 351w conversion is worth the effort vs the 302. BTW, I plan on running an AOD and a 9 inch rear. Eventually the car will have air too. I would love to hear the opinions from the people who have already done the conversions.
I can't see any difference between the 2 swaps. We used to do 302 to 351 swaps in Mustangs years back and I can't recall any issues.
The issue is clearance at the steering box. Even the 302 is mighty tight. I haven't done the 351 swap, so I can't talk from experience, but my car has a 302 in it, and like I said it's really tight. I can't see a 351 going in without a different steering setup, custom headers, or really restrictive manifolds. You can probably research your options there. I can't see the sense in building a stroker motor, then choking it on the exhaust side though. Me personally, unless this is some sort of max effort drag car, I'd build a mild 302 or 331 and call it a day. You mentioned AC, which leads me to believe that cruising is more of a priority than drag or stop light to stop light antics.
This is an all out cruising machine and won't see the drag strip at all. I have already purchased a borgeson steering box for it but I don't know if it will give more clearance or not. I was trying to find a junk block or a P-ayr muck up block to start seeing what kind of issues I will have. I'm worried more about having room for the headers. I bet I will end up custom making them. I just don't want to pull the trigger on a 351 if the 302 is the direction to go. Thanks for the input.
For what its worth, the really mild 302 that I put together for mine moves the car along really well, and that is a stock 1986 short block with a trickflow stage1 cam, edelbrock heads, a 600 holley and puny little shorty headers, backed up with a T5 and a 4.11 geared 9" rear and 28" tall tires. These are light little cars, around 3100 lbs. if I remember correctly -- it doesn't take a ton to move them right along.
Thanks for the information. I'm curious about your 9 in. I picked up a 1958 9 inch housing that I believe will bolt right into the 56 without moving the purches. I'd like to run 15x8 wheels on the back but I either need to purchase wheel with a significant backspacing or narrow the rear. I'm curious if your 9 inch is narrowed and how much did you narrow it. Also, the housing I bought is a small bearing housing which I didn't think was a problem until I started looking for backing plates and brakes for it. I'm curious what you have for brakes if yours is a small bearing unit. Thanks again for the information.
I believe that mine is from a '57 model year 4 door sedan (could have been a 58 though, they're the same), and I believe that it is the small bearing unit. I didn't narrow mine at all and it bolted right in as you mentioned. As far as brakes, I took one look into the cost of the replacement parts for the 57 brake setup and said no way. I ended up using a set of backing plates from a 63 Galaxie. even after spending too much money on backing plates (I was impatient and bought them from eBay) and all of the new parts, I was still money ahead of the 57 brake setup. Finally, on the wheels, I think you'll have a hard time getting an 8" rim in there no matter what the backspace. I have a set of 235/70s on my car with 7" rims. Even with the shackles flipped down, they fit pretty poorly. I'm in the process of going back to the factory 6" rims in the back with a 215/75. I believe I could make the 7" wheels work fine, but I'm not happy with the Wheel Vintiques steel wheels I'm running. This is not to say 8" wheels can't be done, but if you are really dead set on this course of action, I would personally recommend narrowing a later 9" to fit, and possibly being prepared to do some work to the inner wheel wells to get enough clearance. Under no cir***stances would I narrow the 58 housing! They are too desirable/valuable. Go to a pick and pull and grab a housing out of an 80s era truck or something like that.
The 351W is 1.5" wider than a 302/5.0 doesn't seem like a lot but members that have done a 351W swap in a 54-56 have had header to steering box issues with clearance.The 331 stroker would be a better swap,you will want the extra room with the A/C also.
I have a 302 in my car and I don't see where it is "tight". You can crawl right in there it has so much room. If I was starting from scratch I would build a 351 windsor almost every time but your end goals will determine that. The 347 or 331 strokers can easily make 400 hspr with good heads. The 362's are super sweet but expensive. I prefer a 351 windsor myself because you should be able to make 400 hspr easily with good heads. Add a stroker and you can easily make 500 hspr. The difference is down low off the line. That is where that longer stroke and more torque will be noticeable. My 302 with AFR heads, hyd roller cam and intake runs like a banshee after it gets going. It is pretty doggy below 3000 rpm though. Over the counter Mustang headers are usually 1 5/8" primaries that are way too small for a decent small block. It seems silly IMO to base everything off what headers fit. Build it the way you want. But like I said in the beginning, it all depends on your goals. Btw, I am doing a 460 swap soon so there should be room for a 351w.
Cleveland fits better with manifolds because the heads have canted exhaust ports. Not sure about headers though
If you are getting rid of Y block parts, I would be interested. Are you going to keep the old engine and accessories or sell them?
Thanks for all of the input. I was headed in the 351W direction all along until I started to read some complaints. I wanted to make sure it was going to fit before I spent 10g on a motor that I coudn't put in the hole. I actually found a 460 that I could probably buy at a reasonable price. Now you have me thinking. danman55, I'm not sure what I'm doing with the Y-block yet. If I decide to sell it, I'll contact you first.
I think the rear axle in my Ford is a small bearing '57 nine inch. I do have a larger bearing one and it came out of a '59 Station wagon. I was able to get 8" rims on the car without modifying the rear axle. When I installed new quarters, I extended the wheelhouse out to the outer sheetmetal and rolled the wheel opening lip around a piece of 1/2" bar stock. That expanded the width for the tires. I bought a set of flea market 15 x 8 cragers and ground out the welds. Then I increased the backspacing with a block of wood and hammer to center the tires. I used a dial indicator to true up the rim while spinning it free on the car. Then I rewelded the wheels to the centers. It seems to be working fine.
I would go with a 351, there was a recent article (june 2012) in car craft where they used a stock crank, stock rod 90's model 351 with some good heads and made 595 HP. The 302s run great, but as mentioned above they don't have a lot of low end torque, and that is what you want for a driver. I have a 460 in my 55 (was in there when I bought the car) that has a bolt in kit, I am going to be taking the 460 out next winter and going with a Windsor. I just cant cough up the dough for headers, and there are no reasonable overdrive options available. Small block fords have come a long way in the last 5 years with performance, heads, low prices etc. I think if you use the good poly motor mounts it will raise the motor up mentions this(about 1.5 inches taller there is a thread on here that that header/steering box clearance is not an issue.
FPA makes 460 headers (although I think they are too small at 1 3/4") as well as Crites makes 2" 460 headers. I am not so sure how much "too expensive" is though. lol. I will agree that OD's for 460's are not cheap. I have a Lentech and I guarantee they don't give those things away.
With a taller deck height you would want the lowest motor mount available. The header runs right into the firewall because the engine is taller. If you look at the picture I posted earlier on the 302 it just clears the drivers foot pan. I actually have 66 Mustang 351w headers in that picture with 3/8" spacers on the head. Because the 351w is wider the headers tuck back towards the engine for a tighter package. Unfortunately on a 302 a 351w header runs right into the bellhousing requiring a spacer. ( I just thought I would throw that out there in case anyone is ever thinking of doing what I did).
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