Greetings. As I mentioned in my intro I'm working on a model A. It still has the original steel brakes, exactly like Father Henry intended it. They work very well. Now I've reached the point where I would like to channel the body about four to six inches down over the rails to make it low. The thing is I'd really like to keep the mechanical brakes - is that even possible to do? Stumped. How would you do it?
Only way would be to use 32 setup where the rods run along the wishbones instead of outside the frame. Maybe you could modify the a model rods and shift the brackets on the cross tubes inside the frame? Or make a 32 style centre linkage? You would have to have a good look and think about it first. Probably easier to go hydraulic.
Well, ascari...Father Henry never perceived traffic as something that would move at 70 MPH, or drivers in little cars that had a power-to-weight ratio that exceeded aircraft specifications of the day. The Lockheed hydraulic brake design within these HAMB walls has now been 'upped' to the Bendix single servo design, as found on Lincolns, F-1 Ford pickups, and mid-'50s on up GMs. Not 'every', but respectable numbers. Please consider some of the masterful threads on this site, easy ways to stop when you must. Father Henry was around for the hydraulic brake changeover, although he resisted it for 10 years past Dodge Bros.! (and the Dodge Bros. worked for him! Dodge/Plymouth had hydraulic brakes in 1929... Please consider it.
This reminds me of a customer that brought by aModel A Coupe he just bought. Had me look at and give my opinion. I tolfd him it was a nice car but would change one thing if he intended to drive regularly. And that would be to install juice brakes on it for safety sake. His reply was that he couldn't do that bcause it would ruin the orignality of the car. I explained how mch the brakes would help safe stopping but he would not hear of it. A few weeks later he camedriving in with the car, visibly shaken and white as a ghost. He asked how much the juice brake conversion would cost. Seems that he had to do a panic stop to avoid someone running a red light. Mech. brakes being what they are and never staying in perfect balance, had locked up causing the car to spin around and stop facing driver's door to driver's door with the red light runner who had slammed on his brakes as he realized he ran the light. Needles to say we converted his car and he drove home with a nice restoration that stopped straght and true time after time after time. Please reconsider safety over nostalgia if you are going to drive it with other peole on the road. Or make it a parade only car and chug along at 10 to 15 mph where stopping ability isn't as important!
Definitely agree with Atwater Mike and deucemac. Please, for your sake as well as everyone else's on the road, but some decent juice brakes on your car. Henry was the biggest genius of his generation (yep, even with Edison and Einstein), but he was stubborn and didn't adopt 'modern' developments. Don't risk your life and the lives of others by choosing poor brakes to drive around with. Other than that, pics are always good.
Besides from the obvious posts above promoting hydraulics, if you bend, twist, change the rods at all, there is a real risk of changing the balance of the original design. You will change fulcrum points and leverage forces that can be a nightmare to try to balance again. If you make a mistake, your pedal force will be trying to bend a rod instead of stopping the car. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
IMHO,it is not a wise decision to keep the mechanical brakes,the speeds that people drive and react to panic maneuvers doesn't work well with modified cars,Model A's weren't designed for modern highway speeds. There are many threads here on the hamb that will aid you in making a informed decision on stepping up to juice brakes. HRP
I would say keep the mechanical brakes on a correct pre war banger powered highboy, with the proviso that you install a full deluxe Flathead Ted floater kit....and learn how to keep them maintained. However if you are building to anything else I have to agree with everybody else in recommending hydraulics.
If you can lock up a 600X16 or 17 or 18 tire what differences does hydraulics over mechanical have or make. You are sliding a very small footprint on the pavement. Get a wider tire.
OK, got it. Better safe than sorry, especially when we're also talking about the safety of others. So juice is, then. That's unanimous. Out of sheer curiosity what is the true measured difference in feet between a juice setup and a mechanical setup both with modern good shoes? And in good fettle, not as pulled out of a barn. Also, not locked and sliding to Burn Out Bob's point. Is that info available somewhere? I'm not being argumentative, the safety point is well taken. If that's the way to go it's the way to go, especially on my skill level. Period. At the same time we've all seen those giant pre-war multi-ton monsters stop straight and almost on a dime from 80 or 90 with only mechanical rear brakes. What's going on there? And what's the issue in the model A situation? Another question out of sheer curiosity: What was the last American production car that used mechanical brakes?
Here are a couple of links to a little history of brakes in the auto industry. You'll find that Ford was very late to switch to hydraulics. Henry was stubborn when it came to paying patent rights. It was all about profits. http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/history-of-automotive-brakes-1.cfm http://www.carhistory4u.com/the-last-100-years/parts-of-the-car/brakes
I'd say go with juice as mentioned. As you mentioned you have a limited skill level. But i'd put the effort into the brake conversion over the ascetics of a channel first. My old 28 chopped banger had mech brakes and stopped very well. It was an around town driver though. There is a procedure to adjusting the mech brakes (pdf attached) and they should be done on a regular basis.
Thanks for the PDF, Saxon. Probably going with juice after all the warnings, but making a piece of hardwood like that just in case! (BTW not so much a skill issue as wanting to try something different. I'd imagine it might be easier to get a juice setup going than properly restore and adjust steel brakes?) Before I forget, thanks to Manager for actually replying to my original question. Even though it may be moot.
(BTW not so much a skill issue as wanting to try something different. I'd imagine it might be easier to get a juice setup going than properly restore and adjust steel brakes?) You have nothing to lose by going through the PDF and setting up your mech brakes for now. If you choose to keep them then the ted floaters are not a bad idea (97s post). I've never tried them so I cant tell you about how much better it would be, but have heard a lot of good things about them. If you choose to go to juice brakes, then do a search on here or the fordbarn on doing so. Many kits and advice available to ease the pain ( goes without saying though right ). Also will help you in resourcing the parts you will need to start collecting for the conversion. As I mentioned before, I'd seriously consider juicin'... Best of luck!
Four of the first cars I owned as a young teenager were 30s Fords with mech. brakes and the other one was a Crosley. also mech. brakes. You can adjust them to a "fair thee well" to where they are balanced, and a day or 2 later you'll find your self either spinning round as described above, or simply sliding on back wheel like a kid on a bicycle. Considering the plan to channel the car and the brake rod changes to accomplish that, I echo the others, juice brakes. And I agree the old Lockheed brakes don't cut it anymore.
This brake controversy has been going on for a long time. When I first got my "A" roadster and started pulling it apart, I took one look at the mechanical brakes and thought " you gotta be shittin' me!". Talked to a machinest buddy who's big into "A"'s, "B"'s, bikes etc. (the older the better). He told me to go through EVERYTHING and make sure it operated without slop, put in a "floater kit", adjust them, and they'd be fine. He said in fact they'll work as well as a lot of old juice brake set-ups. I followed this advice, even re- bushed the clevis', and put oversized pins in. Other than one time I almost went into the bushes ( front right grabbed after some c@#t on the phone backed out of her driveway) I think they work great. You just have to pay attention , and try to avoid panic stops. As long as you're running a banger, top speed is only around 40 anyway. If you go to one of those high performance flatheads, you're talkin' some serious HP, brother (80?), and then I'd consider the upgrade to juice for safety sake. Just another opinion- stay tuned .
Probably a better idea to do something along these lines rather than chanel it if you want to lower it and keep the mechanicals.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-roadster-drop-axle-mechanical-brakes.591239/ Iv'e done around 1000 miles on my well kept mechanicals and havn't had a o fuck moment yet.This time I'm giving an opinion like everyone else rather than ansering your question..
My 36 sedan has mechanicals - not too great. Very scary! Had the car 30 years and one day I plan to convert it. If I drove it much I would have already done it.
My 35 Willys has mechanical breaks and I intend to keep them, I am also hoping up the 4 banger and not v8 ing either besides mechanical breaks don't leak or need bleeding to remove moisture from lines and don't blow.
King Midgets had HYD, I think crosley was the last, switched to hyd mid 49'..My Crosley stops straight, for the most part..Like i have said before, ya slow down real quick but that last 10 mph can take longer than you'd like, Gots to pay attention..
Hey don't get me wrong, I use rod brakes myself and have no plan to change that. I have 34 axle and brakes , with Ted's kit on both front and rear of my hopped up banger 29 roadster. Rod brakes work well with a Flathead Ted brake energiser (floater) kit. The floater kit also cuts down on the frequency of adjustment...as long as you get all the wear out of the system at the outset. The only reason I suggested the OP goes hydraulic is because he wants to channel the car which will create obvious difficulties with the brake rods and cross shafts on a Model A... check out these couple of road tests by Flathead Ted
Ive also heard of a few people that have stock A's and drive em often with the mechanical brakes speak highly of using new cast iron drums instead of the old steel ones. Ive not driven any As with mech brakes but I have ridden motorcycles with em and the difference between the mechanical drum brakes and hydraulic disc brakes on a motorcycle is night and day.
The Jalopy Journal
