Projects Re fiberglassing and reinforcing a fiberglass T bucket [help]

Hey every I'm now building a t bucket I have a fiberglass body that
Has a cut out door. I have the door and I want to refiberglass it in. Right now I am making a frame to support the body I have never worked with fiberglass before and I am looking for knowledge on this subject please help

 

Pics

 

There are readily available books on this subject. You might check on line,.....Motor Books, eBay, Amazon and other sources. Fiberglass is not difficult to work with, but does require basic information about the types of glass fiber materials that are available (cloth, mat, fillers) and their most appropriate uses. Also information regarding resin usage.

Most importantly, SAFETY TIPS.

Ray

 

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/fiberglass-repair.asp

Here's some basic help. No time to find something better now, but i might later.

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fiberglass+repair

you can learn how to do almost anything from youtube vids

 

Trickiest part is mixing resin and hardener- if the proportions are way off it takes forever to be workable ( too little hardener) , or you get a "hot batch" ( too much) and 3 mins after you mix it, it "goes off" and is set up and useless. The materials aren't cheap, and it sucks to loose a batch because you're rushing the job. Start with smaller batches till you get a feel for it- it's not difficult. If you're sealing the door panel in for good, mat (chopped) fiberglass is stronger, but harder to work with. Cloth isn't as strong , but much easier to apply ( and you can always do two layers.) You've got to get the door set in place exactly where you want it , then glass it from the back. "Paint" around the opening with the resin/hardener mix ( lay it on), then apply strips of cloth cut into 3 or 4" strips over the gaps.Paint on more resin and work all the air bubbles out with the brush. This is crucial to a good bond and a smooth finish. Worst part is if you get resin mix on your hands ( which you probably will!)- everything you touch will stick to your hands, and you'll look like Curley trying to put down the flypaper! Nyuk, nyuck, nyuk! Good luck.

 

Neoprene gloves. It will eat latex ones.

 

I'm running to work right now, but tonight I will sit down and give you some tips on glassing. I have done a fair amount of it over the years.

Don

 

chester greenhalgh's book is a good one

 

Make the door functional - believe me at some point you'll be glad you did. Speaking from experience.

 

There's a lot of fiberglass threads on here over the past few years and very knowledgeable people on this board. Do a couple searches and youll find the threads. I've done some glass work but it's pretty basic compared to others here.

Get quality materials from a boat supply place, pass on the auto zone bondo fiberglass kit.

 

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/HowTo-Publications/User Manual 2012 Part1.pdf Real good stuff,easy mixing and gives plenty working time! Pete http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/main.do

 

Too bad it's on the driver's side. A right door is useful for both the driver and passenger; while a left door may even be cumbersome for the driver, depending on steering and pedal location.

 

prpmmp, Thanks for posting the West Systems pdf, thats just what I've been looking for.
I'm going to reinforce a very ,old, light weight, glass '26 T roadster body, I've had for years
Again thanks for the info. .......................... Jack

 

Your welcome!! Get the video if they still have it,great stuff!! Pete

 

i think your right about glassing in the door. it looks like it was just cut out and not a part of the original mold. it doesn't have the door flange for the hinges and such. the way i do it is, simply cut some steel sheet straps about 2 in by 4 in and pop rivet them across the opening of the door on the inside of the body. put the door in from the outside and pop rivet it to the straps. sometimes the body and door have sprung a bit so it may take some thicker straps to keep it square. also, it doesn't hurt to clamp a brace across the body to keep it stiff. then just glass around in between these and after they harden, drill out the rivets and glass it up completely. the correct way to do it would be to sand a trough were the separation is, about an inch or so both sides, so it will be a solid bond. this sometimes is not feasible because of the door revel. unless you want to reshape it afterwards. it also would not hurt to lay a couple of layers of cloth the full height of the body and as much as possibly fwd and back on the inside. to correct some thinking about glass fibers. the chopped strand mat gives no real strength. it is used to add bulk thickness. the cloth is what gives the strength. most hand layup is done with mat and usually a layup of cloth before the last mat, so if you have to sand it down, you will be sanding the mat and not the cloth. to use just mat is why chopper gun layup is considered not as strong as hand layup. after all, doesn't a gun spray the same thing your laying up in mat, just chopped up, you might also like to know, to get mat to lay down in 90% corners is to need it like bread dough and break up the bonding agent that keeps it together. this is used so it can be shipped and rolled up, otherwise it would simply be chopped up strands.

 

Ok, I have a little time this morning, so here is a little more info on fiberglassing. There are two major components in the glassing process........the resin/hardener, and the cloth or mat. There are two kinds of resin:

1) Polyester........the most common type, used in most boat and other things, like T bucket bodies. Your bucket was built with polyester resin.

2) Epoxy resin........like the West System mentioned in an earlier post. Epoxy is superior to polyester in most respects, it bites in better, is stronger, and lasts longer, but it is also about 3 times as expensive as polyester. For most fiberglassing projects it is not absolutely necessary. All of the work I have done on several T bodies has been done with polyester resin, and my 27 was done over 25 years ago and is still like the day I did it. But if you want the very best, no question epoxy is as good as it gets.

The second component in the glassing process is the cloth or mat. The resin has no strength at all, it is simply there to stick the cloth or mat to each successive layer. When you apply the resin to the cloth or mat this is called "wetting out" the glass. A properly wetted out glass is not too wet and not too dry.

Here is the difference between mat and cloth:

1) Mat is constructed of randomly positioned short strands of broken up glass fibers. You can take a piece of it and pull it apart with your hands. It has several advantages over cloth. It wets out better, so it sticks together better and it sticks to other things, like the wood you will be putting in your body for strength. It also goes around corners better, so if you have to have the fiberglass wrap around a corner or over a piece of wood, it is better for that job.

2) Cloth is the stuff most people are familiar with. It is long strands of fiberglass, tightly woven into a pattern. It is a lot like the shirt you are wearing. You can actually see where some strands run north and south and some run east and west. You can not pull cloth apart with your hands, you need to cut it with scissors. The downside is that it does not go around corners well and it is not great to use for the first layer as it can pull away after time.

Both cloth and mat are used in the process. I like to lay down the first layer with mat, get it nice and wet, and then put either another layer of mat on top, or a layer of cloth down next. Sometimes, depending on how many layers you are doing, you can alternate between cloth and mat.

When doing something like the door replacement of your T bucket, you will want to get rid of any of the old wood in that entire area and start with just a bare fiberglass body. Remove all the wood, especially in the immediate area on both sides of the cut out portion. Grind the surface with something like an 80 grit grinding disc, wipe it all down with acetone, and make sure you have gotten all the old wood and glass off of the body inner structure.

You will need to mechanically secure the cut out door to the body until the glass hardens. I would either use a lot of clamps or maybe even drill through the body and put screws into some temporary wood to hold it perfectly in alignment. Once you have the cut out door solidly in place, cut some wood pieces that will run vertically. Two of the pieces of wood should span the gap caused when they cut out the door.......some wood should be on either side of the cut.

Everyone has different opinions about the wood to use. Some say oak, but I don't like it. I simply go to Home Depot and pick up some 1 x 3 or 1 x 4 strips of pine or other softer wood and use that. I think the glass sticks to it better and it flexes with the body better than oak would. Look at the picture I posted earlier (and I will post a few more after I get done writing this) and you will see how the wood goes and how it lends strength to the body.

I used to wet out a couple of layers of mat, cut into strips wider than the wood pieces and I would put those under the wood to make it stick to the body. But there is a new product that is so much easier and better, it is West System Six-10 adhesive in a caulking gun tube. It is a lot like the structural adhesive body shops use to put body panels in place, and all you do is lay down a couple of beads and squish the wood down into it, clamp it down, and the next day it is part of the structure. I used it to put the firewall in my altered project and I love how it worked.

Once you have the wood firmly glassed to the inner part of the body, you can either put a layer of mat over them to waterproof them, or paint all of the wood with resin. That will keep water from getting in and rotting out the wood.

Finally, buy your supplies at a marine supply store and buy lots of throwaway brushes, a box of vinyl gloves, a gallon of acetone, lots of plastic mixing cups , lots of stir sticks, and buy your cloth and mat by the yard.

I know this post is a little lengthy, but there is a lot to cover, and this only scratches the surface, but should get you started.

Don

 

These pictures might help:

 

Pay attention to what Don said...lot's of good info in his post. WEST system stuff is GOOD. Easily found at most boat supply stores. They even have a set of pumps for measuring the amount of resin/hardener that makes getting the correct ratio foolproof. If you're not near a boat store all their stuff can be found on line. Google West Marine for a start.

 

Have you tried tupperware forums??

 

Just one tip:

DO NOT WORK IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT, the UV rays will kick the mixture off quicker.

Canuck

 

Gloves are a must---- because getting glass and resin on your bare hands makes you want to PEE

 

Don!! Excellent Post!! Pete

 

Epoxy will not break down the binders in fiberglass mat, it works just fine with the cloth though. So sayeth the folks at the local suppliers. West System is a well respected manufacturer ,savior of many a boat.

 

Ain't that the truth?!

 

Safety First! Use all these materials in a well ventilated area ( preferably outdoors) and don't throw leftovers into a trash can and cover it. Keep the trash outside as well- when this stuff is curing, it gives off strong vapors and actually gets hot as it sets up. Works good, but it's nasty shit.

 

It seems to me that there is bound to be gaps when fitting wood to the compound curves of a body. Don, do you know how much of a gap can be spanned using Six-10? Have you ever tried using ash for the wooding? Morgan still uses ash in their bodies. I know typically expensive, but I have a relative who operates a saw mill and has a good supply of ash drying. The main cost to me would be a couple of hundred mile each way trip to get it.

 

I think ash would be great, in fact, I think I bought some when I did my 23 and used it. As for the gap filling properties, I try to get the wood shaped as close as possible to the contour of the body, but Six 10 is thickened epoxy so it will fill quite a large gap. When I used it to put the wood firewall in my altered I had a gap of about a half inch on one side and I just pumped it full of the Six 10. Next day it was all one solid piece. Wish I had known about it years ago, but I think it is relatively new.

Here is a little write up where they discuss how it fills gaps:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/new-six10-epoxy-adhesive/

Don

 

It looks like I'll be using ash with six10. Thanks for the guidance!

 

another note on resin types. i have been working with a fiberglass mold maker and he said not to use the commercial grade resin instead use tooling resin. a little more money but, one thing about commercial grade resin is it can warp with the body over time. the tooling resin is harder. he has 100's of molds and were talking 30-60 years and none of them have ever warped. also most of his don't have a lot of stiffener support. and they sit outside to boot. don gave a good post too.