Hot Rods 301/302 SBC build.

Pretty car! The car I had in high school (66-69) was a 56, 210, 2 door post, that was originally two tone red and white; it had been re-painted all red by the owner before me. I paid $225.00 for that car, and it was a 2 barrel, 265 with a Powerglide; also had chrome reverse wheels with baby moons and skinny Goodyear, bias ply tires. That g***er reminded me of it, and somewhere, I've got an old black and white pic of it. Before selling it, when I bought my 340 Dart, it had a 292 4 barrel with a 3 speed stick on the floor. I knew a guy that had a 63 Biscayne 4 door sedan with a 230 six and 3 speed overdrive that his grandparents gave him. White with a red interior, and he built a 301 backed up with a Borg Warner 4 speed. I think he had 4.11's in the rear end, but it's been so long ago I don't remember for sure. He eventually wrecked the car ending it's life, and swapped the engine/trans/rear end into a 57, 210, 4 door wagon, bronze and white. I never rode in either car, but it they were supposed to be "fast". I was talking with my machinist earlier today, and he's going to keep an eye out for a 327 block, but he's not too hopeful. I may wind up with a 283 block, and just use the .060 over pistons and second design 327 rods to build a 292; 10 cubic inches can't make for much difference. Plus, they have a smaller dome. But, someone's got to have a 327 block that'll work for me. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Thanks for those two leads, I'll E-Mail them right away. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

In response to all the folks who say that you can't successfully drag race a 301 please remember our deceased "weekender" (Tommy McCray) from right here on the H.A.M.B. His Henry J had a homebuilt 301 and was national record holder in '66 & '67. I didn't know Tommy then so I never saw the car raced, but I bet the engine was screaming all the way down the track.

Sooooooo; that's not the way it's done now, but back then...

 

Funny how most these ideas start with the acquisition of a set of Pistons & rotating goodies........ Rewind to 1985 & I bought a nos steel 283 crank from local gmc dealers upstairs overstock. new set of TRW 1967-68 dome .030 302 Pistons from another friend & a set of polished rods w Milodon bolts. Here I am 30 years later still pondering when & what I'd like to do with the stuff! Thought it'd make good spares for my large journal ones. Here's s pic of some of it & some thick bearings to put it in a lg journal block. I've decided not to use those thick bearings & so it waits for someday. Flux.

 

Butch, A couple years ago I bought a new GM crate 327 called a "GM Fitted Block" back in the day. The guy had 2 of them, if you still have the need I can put the 2 of you together. He lives in Leavenworth. A GM Fitted Block is a standard small journal 327 with new pistons & rings which seems you don't need. I have a standard bore '63 283 block but never had it micked to see if it needs boring or is OK as is but your more than welcome to come over for a look see................................

 

I don't have the casting number, but the 301 in my 55 started out as a 1960 Power Pack 283 out of an Impala. A long time ago, I read that the 59 - 61 283 blocks were the best to bore out to 301. They were supposed to have the thickest cylinder walls, and 59 was the first year for the neoprene rear main seal.

Something must have gone right with my 301. It was originally built in 1968, (bored out .080) with 12 1/2 Jahns pistons. I had it punched out to 301 in 1984. It's been together ever since. Best time is a 13:79 at The Hunnert Car Heads Up.

By the way....Doesn't a 283 bored out .120 get 301 cubic inches? As far as why build one? Because they are GREAT engines. I'd take a 283 over a 350 any day of the week.

 

a 283 punched .125 comes out to 301 and change. GM built the same basic engine using a 327 type block (4" bore) and a 283 type crank (3" stroke) and called it a 302. As it worked out both GM and Ford had a 302" motor in that era, compe***ion in marketing. I don't recall who had the 302 first but both were working to make the best one, and both had the same name for marketing purposes.

Anyway a late GM 302 and an early hot rod 301 had the same displacement and were basically the same engine. Basically being the operative word here.

I personally prefer the small journal engine over the large journal engine, I unfortunately belong to the camp that believes that lower bearing speed is a good thing.

 

Good info! I bought one recently from a buddy that was cleaning out his garage because he was moving, need to check the casting numbers on it (haven't because I seem to have "misplaced" my "Small Block Chevy by the Numbers" book.....


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[QUOTE="... because I seem to have "misplaced" my "Small Block Chevy by the Numbers" book.....[/QUOTE]

try post #154 on this thread. And probably elsewhere on the same thread.

 

Flux
I think that this is probably not the way that the average HAMBer builds a mill. But I totally get it, my current and old faithful SBC for the last 15+ years was built from a crank and a set of pink rods.

 

Thanks, Atch. The book is pocket sized so it's easy to carry at swap meets, junk yards, etc. Unfortunately, that also means it easy to loose!

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x3 on the 307 block if the bearing spacer kit is around $70 and I'm told most 307's can be bored out .125 and the cost of machine work would be offset by the cost of a 307 as nobody wants them and you could find one cheap or even FREE!

 

Here's a thread I started on the subject.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cheap-301-combo.965243/#post-10867163

 

Bearing spacers for a 350 crank on a 400 block are not going to work in a 307 going to small journal. I think that they can be had but most of the guys I know that need to go from a large journal to a small journal block end up making their own.

There is another option if you want to use a late model block, depending on what the 283 crank is made from it could be welded up and reground to large journal specs. it runs about 200 dollars give or take around here and that is about what it will cost to punch a 283 block .125.

Now we are getting way out there on a simple build. LOL

 

I used a 63 block for the 301 I built for my old 53 F-100 with TRW forged pistons and "cloverleaf" 327 rods. The truck was too heavy with the wrong gears to fully use the high winding motor...what a shame.
If my 370 Pontiac doesn't work out for my 34 ford, I've got enouigh parts to screw together one more 301 for it. Collected another pair of TRW forgings, a set of Oliver rods [small journal] a 1966 block and crank and a pair of 69 camaro Z-28, 302 heads. I still have to find a good cam and intake setup and probably a better pair of heads.

 

Nothing wrong with those heads other then it won't run on pump gas if you keep the compression up. it won't pull an old sick woman off a bed pan if you don't. LOL

I have been on the lookout for a Z-28 off road cam for a while to stick on my small block, they are a real cam. I think that you would want a pretty deep gear with a small displacement motor though like about a 4.56 or so.

 

Yep, he's got a BUNCH of blocks, and at $2500.00 a piece, I think he'll probably have them for some time to come! These blocks are made of grey cast iron, not unobtanium. Oh well. I may have a standard bore 327 lined up, but it's still not going to be cheap, and for that reason, I may just go with the 292 setup. Who'd have thought this would be so difficult? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

I bought a 68 Z28 new when the 68 models were released and I never felt that it was bad on torque, but I did put 4..88 gears in it, so it shouldn't have felt like it was short of torque, I guess. I sure loved that car, another car I wish I had never sold!

 

Hey Butch, we can thank Inflation for that ********, if I had two standard bore 327 I would just give you one so you could go ahead and build the engine that you want. The part that gets me is these guys have this stuff that they will never do anything with and if they can't get that almighty top dollar they won't even help a follow rodder out when you are in need. I have a buddy who has a T10 4 speed that needs parts and he thinks the thing is worth half of what a good one is worth, well guess what he can keep it and put the 1000 dallors worth of part in it that it needs, I will find one some place else. I only have one 327 standard bore and I will be using it for my Willy's build. The other one that I have I am going to do like Gearhead QUC said and bore it .60 over and build a 310 cu.in. If you didn't already have the rolling ***embly that might be a way to go. Best of luck on finding a block., I will be following the thread to see how things work out for you.

 

Not starting a Ford VS Chevy thing but how come Ford had and still has a 302 ? They are both basically the same bore/stroke . Chevy only made the Zapper for 3 years and gave up where Ford had theirs for nearly 50. Most of the Fords were low performers except the Boss and the K code 289 but they kept the basic package and used them in heavy cars and pickups so they at least had enough torque to move those vehicles.

On another note I read in HotRod or CarCraft that the late chevy 267 has a 3 inch crank with large journals to fit in a 350 block. That would make a cheap 301/302 ...still need to rebalance the works and it's cast not forged but you can get 267's for nothing...I bet someone would pay you to take one.

 

On the 267, you're probably right (on someone paying you to take one), but only IF you can find one to begin with! I only remember ever seeing one, and it was in a 1980 Camaro Berlinetta I took in on trade. It was a decent car, but the 267 spit it's guts out on the way back from the coast. Put a nice 350 in it and it was a much better car! I can't imagine too many people keeping one of those around for very long!

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Jethro,
The 267 was 3.5" bore X 3.48" stroke (same as 350). Now, I have thought about putting a 400 crank in a 267 block to make a 289" low rpm mileage motor. Haven't had the time or $ to invest in it. A man has to have priorities!

 

I have .125 over 307 in our family's one owner 69 c10/3 speed overdrive w 4.10 gear. We torque plate bored & honed it in our machine shop in 1987, great core shift & tons of thickness left to go more if needed. Runs cool as a ***ber & is way peppier now being a lg journal 327. Flux

 

I saw this car at River Bend, record holder from the 60's. Anyone know if this 300ci was built in the same manner?

 

I'm pretty sure the 2500 engines are complete runners, I hope lol,
I'm sure the bare blocks are cheaper but just as expensive on a relative level - at least is like to think so.

 

That car is awesome to watch

 

For correct # C word motors (Corvette)......I kinda doubt it!
Not saying there worth it or anything, those guys are crazy!

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I snagged a 302 out of a wrecked '68 Camaro in the early '70s and stuffed it in my '64 Chevelle. I only had 4.11s and it was peppy enough and once you got it wound up it really came alive. Correct another one that should have stayed in the stable.

Butch,
It is not really that difficult, if you use a 283 block you just have to remember that it is a throw away block. The original builders of the 301/302s knew that and they were happy. I also think that you can buy a dart block in the 1200 dollar range if you decide to go new and rebuildable. I haven't priced one lately but I doubt that they are much more than that.

 

My Bad on the 267....the correct crank is the 94-96 L99 4.3 V-8 which is a 265 not to be confused with the 55-57 265