Ever since I converted my 53 Chevy Pu to a rack and pinion I have had nothing but issues. The system works half the time .I have rebuilt the GM type 2 pump 4 times already, I made stainless ptfe Teflon lines, I had a local truck shop make me special crimped rubber lines and still no help. I kept thinking the issue were the lines but they are not leaking and were pressure tested off the car. Today I spent hours wrenching, I flushed 2 quarts of mineral spirits through my system and redid the lines, bled 4 times and at start up no steering and cavitation. Fluid is flowing and the relief valve isn't stuck. I took the relief valve out of the pump and polished it well so no burrs etc. Issue is there are no leaks anywhere and everytime it cavitates the fluid gets contaminated with metallic particles. Can anyone here suggest how I can find my issue, it must be sucking in air but I do not know where or how to find it because there are no leaks running or when I shut it down.I have SAE fittings on the rack with crush washers which convert the inlet and outlet to -6 I've had it, I almost think the rack is defective but I can not test that assumption. I can turn the wheels left and right 500 times and I still get bubbles in the fluid reservoir with the car off and wheels off the ground. I need a direction and advice on this one.
Metal isn't good - maybe you screwed it up by cavitating so many times. What kind/ original application of rack ? I have gotten bad racks from rebuilders. NOW!!!! You should have the engine running while turning the wheel slowly lock to lock to bleed the system. Also check the racks inner tie boots for fluid, there shouldn't be any more than a slight trace in there.
The drivers inner boot shows fluid but it may have been from me being messy today. I have a camaro front clip and the rack system is by unisteer . Their instructions said to bleed with engine off. Regardless something is wrong and I am about to rip this all out and go back to manual steer. I'm gonna check inside the inner tie rod boots tomorrow . If there is excessive fluid I assume this means the rack is junk.
If you turned the wheels 500 times and still have bubbles you could have a leak at the return inlet. Don't know about your setup but if it has a fitting that bolts to the pump with an o-ring I'd check it.
I once had a problem with the pump reservoir not having a large capacity and the fluid would pull too low and allow air to enter the system. You can test it by taping a tube temporarily to the filler boss and then filling it over the normal level and see if it stops the cavitation ...
If a vane pump is making metal it's gone. And you should always start bleeding a ps system with the engine off and front wheels off the ground.
Guys thanks for the replies, just went out for a smoke and checked, I put my finger under the return fitting on the reservoir and it had a tiny drop of fluid under the fitting as I rubbed my finder under it. Pressure fitting was dry . If I try to tighten the line more I will easily crack the reservoir. I have an Afco clip on aluminum reservoir which has a -6an return fitting welded on the side. Should I try to clean up the AN fitting with some emery cloth and apply some Teflon tape or Rectorseal thread sealer and try this again tomorrow? Will a tiny seep at the inlet return cause cavititation this quick on start up? It's crazy it doesn't leak when driving or idle it must have seeped since I'm parked in hours ago.
I had the same problem with the return line leaking with those conversion hoses.. Ended up using the stock return hose mine was mid 80s tbird.
The return letting air in is a very possible issue. There are vacuum adapters to use with a hand held vacuum pump to "suck" the air out. Since the late 90's many manufactures recommend the vacuum method to bleed a system. It also allows you to check for the return leaking air in. It should hold 5 inches vacuum for 5 minutes. Do not go any higher or you will suck air in past the shaft seal. BIGGER thing is you have metal in the fluid?? Metal or aluminum? Some early design rack housings were aluminum at the top were the hydraulic control valve sits (where lines attach). Either way you should find and eliminate that issue first.
I have been doing alot of searching on this AN style leaks and see they offer various seals. I just ordered some loctite coated AN seals from Flaretite. They swear by them and gaurantee a perfect seal on my joints. The metal in the fluid is coming from the pump cavitation of the metal cam inside hitting the back cover during fluid stavation. I opened and cleared the entire system out carefully and i am just waiting for those flare seals to show up later this week. I do not like the looks of any of the male AN flares from over cinching the lines so many times. Il keep you guys updated once i get everything back together.
See if This scenario sound familiar : Wheels up for service ( brakes, suspension, what ever) Rotating the knuckle or turning the wheel side to side and the Power steering reservoir is over flowing and leaking fluid onto the ground. ???? Ever happen to you??? Then when the vehicle is started the power steering pump is whining, bitching and moaning. ???Sound familiar??? What happened is you've pushed the fluid back out of the system thru the return and it stayed there in the reservoir- evacuating the fluid in the system. It doesn't seem to ever draw it back thru the return with the engine off. I know this because the more you turn it the more spills on the ground as more and more fluid leaves the once perfectly operational system.
Well guys here is an update as of Thursday. I got the entire system back together, flushed everything out and now fit all the -6 fittings with Flaretite seals. not a single leak. and my system actually does work but not 100% as my wife was turning the wheel left and right to bleed no matter what there were bubbles even after 2 hours of messing with it. then i realized on a few more strokes there was now metallic particles coming back through the return line in the reservoir and this is with the pump off and not even circulating. this has to be coming from inside the rack and pinion. I am not any expert on rack and pinions but i assume the seals must be messed up bad and it is causing the return fluid to be dirty and my pump to no ever get all the air out of my system. as of now i am leaning toward my issues as being a faulty rack/ if the seal is bad it must have scored the aluminum bore and hence the source of metallic particles with the pump off. I called the rack company who makes the conversion kit and nobody there has a clue to troubleshoot. all they kept saying is they are all tested before shipping and i would need to remove mine and send it back and the turn around is 2-3 weeks. I am livid now over this can any of you guys confirm what my issue is as being a bad rack seal? can i buy rebuild parts and fix this myself or i need special tools? How do i identify the rack to see what i need? someone told me it is a Thunderbird rack. also i have power steering when i am driving along it feels actually fine now, no noise, groan or foaming of my fluid so this is a plus i guess but at idle or below 1100 RPM there is no power assist but kicks on when i rev it up. it never did this ever before. also with both wheels in the air and engine off the fluid in the reservoir does go up and down and when my wife turned it to the left at full lock it went up then slowly dropped 1/2 inch or so which might mean a failed rack seal.
My understanding is the Mustang/T-bird racks operate at a lower pressure than what the GM pumps put out, so maybe excessive pressure is damaging the rack...
Nope. Not the problem. The late T-Bird rack is not a MII rack. Totally different animal. These run with a Saginaw pump just fine.
I was thinking about this thread this week. Installed a new rack, lines and pump into a Dodge. I over Filled the reservoir, spun the pulley by hand about 10 times, topped the resevoir off, put the belt on, turned the wheel lock to lock 2 times, parked wheel on left lock, started engine, turned to right lock, back to left lock. Shut it off. Let the bubbles subside for 10 mins, topped it off. Started and Lock to lock 4 times and it was done. Dropped it on the ground and lock to lock 2 times no groaning so that was a Complete bleed in 10 turns lock to lock. Opened a system on a GM van with steering box. Same procedure. New rack in an old dodge omni, same procedure. 3 systems bleed with 30 turns total. Junk in your fluid, If you cavitated and ground the pump, the chips were forced into the rack and settle. The first placed the chips went was into the control valve. The chips will come out of the rack eventuallyand back to the reservoir to get pumped thru again and again. It's not too hard to dismantle a rack and clean it out. Parts are certainly out there but you probably can't find them at any chain autoparts store.
31vicky do you think my rack is damaged based on what i mention? If i had the coin i woild replace the rack and pump but i just can not afford that now. What doesnt make sense to me is i flushed the rack with 3 bottles of ps fluid and a gallon of mineral spirits, it was bone clean. I rebuilt the pump and everything was super clean. I primed the pump by spinning pulley like you mentioned Then i turn wheels lock to lock and the fluid is filled with crap again. Such a simple system that is really driving me crazy. Im running out now to get a ps filter at Napa to tie into the return line. Still think its odd how my ps is dead at idle rpm's and no matter how much i flush the system i keep getting debris with the pump not even turning.
Maybe just maybe if you could fill the rack, shake it vigorously and flush it thru with the transfer line ports down so the chips could come out. The seal will act like a squeegee moving chips to the hole. Gravity will keep the chips in side there. But I'd bet you need to disassemble the rack to clean it out. Fluid enters the rack under pressure thru the Control valve . that fluid if it were carrying Chips The chips also were forced Through the control valve. As fluid leaves the rack, It moves by displacement only and not under pressure back Through the open port in the control valve. To get the chip out you'll need to have them suspended in the fluid like a shaken snow globe and try to get gravity to help move the chips to an open hole that exits the system- not back into the reservoir. You seem to have multiple problems now that are interdependent. I don't see any single part will end it. There's a rack with debris that feeds some of that debris back into the pump to be re introduced into the rack again. If the pump continues to produce new debris it will get into the rack. The pumps pressure port is messed up or the control valve in the rack is messed up. Both the rack and the pump need to be disassembled, inspected, repaired AND cleaned to end the problem.
Contact these guys, They are local to you and I'm sure they could offer you assistance. http://biltronautomotive.com/cms/
Guys the metal in the fluid are not flakes, the particles are so small you can not see with the naked eye unless you shine a bright light into the reservoir. I took a spare cap and made an adaptor for my vacuum pump and i bled the system this way today. Not a spec of air, no noise or groan but zero ps at idle and low rpm, once i rev it up it works perfectly fine. No foaming of fluid. I think its pretty obvious my pump is toast. I think it cavitated one to many times so i just ordered a new one and will install Wed night
As far as I am concerned, no amount of metal is acceptable in a hydraulic system. At this point, I'd replace the rack, too, after thoroughly flushing the lines.
spoke to rack mfgr and they wont warranty the rack they said i can send it back as a core for rebuild.. i bit the bullet and bought a new maval type 2 pump at napa. installed it today and my steering works just fine for once. no leaks, no groan etc. i think my pump was just shot. the fluid looks so much better now with just the slightest almost micro particles here and there. i took these pump apart a few times i am coming to the conclusion that maybe what i am seeing in the fluid is normal wear and tear. i checked my daily driver f350 and the fluid is almost black and has stuff floating around as well and my system works fine. the particles are so small that the filter from Magnfine doesn't even capture them so i doubt it is anything to worry about for now. i just didnt want to deal with sending the rack back and wasting my time.. the filter claims to filter 3-15 microns so il keep driving to see how things progress
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