Hot Rods 383 chev quad webers falls short on the dyno 200hp 248ftlbs

I would check engine vacuum, cyl pressure,cam timing, specs on cam. (in that order) Cams have been known to get mixed up.

 

Ok here is a dumb question did you think to measure the bore to make sure you didn't buy a stock 400? It should still make more zot than that stock but it could be that you are thinking you are building s silk purse and what you really got is a sows ear.

 

Engine specs are in the first post verified bore and stroke when I put new head gaskets in it after I purchased engine vacuum cylinder pressure is good dyno shop has dynoed 2 other 383s one a tpi 292hp 318ftlbs and the other with afr heads and big lift cam was 412hp 450ftlbs so compared to the tpi I'm not that far off I just need better heads more lift and bigger venturis for my engine it's starving in the upper rpm band

 

I asked a legit question you didn't say. You did say this

which led me to believe that you didn't trust it. So I ignored it. I am guessing you put the cam in, correct?
I got to laugh a little if I had said two months ago that camel hump heads were highly overrated you would have said that I am full of ****.

I don't know what kind of tuner you are so my suggestion of a 2x4 or a single was based on my knowledge of the average builder. That said I am going to say something that you can tell me I am full if **** until you wise up and change it out, Webbers are highly overrated. You may make them work. I worked around an induction spe******t on and off for about 30 -40 years, he made good money off of people running webbers and he almost always suggested that they look into a different setup, or replace them with delortho or solex look a likes if they insisted that they liked the way that they look.

 

I didn't put the cam in that is the only thing I did not verify so I have no idea which cam is in it I did verify stroke and bore and it matches the build sheet I understand the negativity towards the webers however I am on the GT40s site and those guys will say the opposite and depending on which article you read depends on whether on not people lose or gain on the dyno with weber carbs and I will never say anyone is full of **** when it comes to engines and cars there is always a better engine builder and always a faster car and always a better driver that's the game we play I was looking for advice that I can take into consideration and I was able to find the answer out will my engine make 500hp no it won't and if the way I type comes off as a personal attack as the way I read your comments or if I've offended you in someway I do apologize and I am unaware that's the problem with text

 

Dyno guy had it on the "metric"setting. Find out the conversion factor and crunch the numbers....

 

Mike you never ever have to apologize to me, and you can say I am full of **** any time you like. Part of the time I am. Ok most of the time.

Webbers can be a PITA. They are not as bad now as they used to be, the ones we were using 40 years ago gave new meaning to finicky. Barometer changes, humidity changes, al***ude, temperature, all made you retune. You could literally get one running just right in San Francisco and not be able to drive to Reno. They are best suited for a road racer and way back when they were really popular with the CanAm and TransAm crowd.

I am not seeing it really well but I'll just about bet that your setup would work best on a high winding motor like say a 301/302. Or if you had a lot of cam in the 383 so you could keep your revs above 4K.

if you are dedicated I will be interested in seeing you make it work. Interested in like we should be in the same place interested so that I can ride behind that small block at full sing interested.

Oh and sometimes I come across a little short, its my mature and not text. But you no doubt have already figured that out and you just ignore my way of speech, for which I am grateful.

 

I'm sure dyno time has come and gone---But, why not just stick with a single 4 for a "test session" ^^^^^^^^
like seat of your pants test session......If there are several unknown's going on here,you will know straight up what kinda ball's your mill has.....
You can play with your set-up after,but tuning with a single will show you what you really have engine wise.......Might surprise you.........

 

Yah the issue is with the carbs I learned from the gt40 guys my venturis are way to small I need ideally 51ida not 48s however were not going down that road but the venturis I have in the 48s are 37mm I need minimum 42mm so that plus a better cam and run with the iron heads I should be able to see significant gains then I should go down the cylinder heads road however i am toying with idea of starting from scratch and putting a whole new rotating ***embly heads cam and switching to a blower setup or going with a twin turbo setup jury is still out still have to run that by the wife... Or I may be dropping down to a smaller cubic inches for the webers and throw that 383 in another project the cfm flow rate on maxed out 48s will never be the same as say a common runner weber Ida's don't like big ccs per cylinder unless I can get them to dump more air and fuel in which is where the larger venturis come in I asked if I can just run without the venturis but apparently you need the Bernoulli effect (I think that's what it's called ) and without that they don't run worth a stink but it would give me the max air and fuel flow of 48mm ****erfly's synching the carbs and getting them to respond was easy getting the most power out of those carbs that's a different story

 

Yep, this is one thing Jim Ingelese stresses; IR intakes don't like a lot of overlap. Any reversion you get goes straight into the carb, there's no plenum to dampen the pulses. He calls a 110 degree lobe separation 'marginal'....

 

Mike, you might call Jim Ingelese and ask for his recommendations. He does have a lot of experience with IR Weber induction systems and extracting the maximum HP out of them. Go to his web site first and read through it. When I talked to him about my 231 Buick and said that it had 40mm 3c IDAs on it he said they were too small and I needed the 48mm carbs which was what the manifold was developed for. 48mm 3c IDAs are out of my price range but the 40mm carbs have 36mm chokes and do work on this manifold. Once sorted (that is key) they are reliable and if you can stay on the idle circuit they deliver good MPG. The Buick doesn't like to idle below 1000 rpm and has 15* advance there and all in at 3500 rpm with 35* advance. An IR system has another advantage. The Buick has 10:1 compression and will run on 87 octane without a ping. The Webers aren't for everyone as just about any other induction system will produce more peak HP but the WOW factor is right up there with a GMC supercharger (IMHO).

 

Yah I called jim basically I give him 300.00 he sends me a mystery package with everything I need for a 383 when I asked him what was included venturis jets emulsion tubes? he stopped talking to me I just wanted to know what my 300.00 was paying for cuz I wasn't given him 300.00 for jets and nothing else

 

What's the car run in the 1/4? Making p***es is more fun than watching a dyno operator. Got an abandoned road near you? GTech's are great for tuning.
http://www.gtechpro.com

Before you buy heads, or swap engines completely, try a single plane and a 750 holley. Make a couple p***es with each.

 

I would pay the 300, no matter what is in the bag. Even if there is main jets and emulsion tubes, there's 230+ bucks in parts. IF so, 70 bucks worth of knowledge from the master is well spent. Dont piss him off, or you might be tuning for a long time figuring it out on your own. He knows his ****, just listen to him.

 

Oh I understand he knows his **** and don't doubt it but I like to know what I'm buying within reasons a simple emulsion tubes jets would suffice as to what was included not the actual jet numbers or emulsion tube specs

 

The chokes, all the jets, air correctors; all can be measured at home. The emulsion tubes can be compaired to others with online pics. Just get it running good, chances are you will never change the settings. One thing with Jim, when you pay up front it might seen a bit high, he is always there for support if there is some tweaking.

 

These guys crack me up, they spend money on an engine, then Webers, then a dyno pull, twice and an expert like Jim Inglese says $300. and they want to know "what am I getting". I'm sorry and I'm not trying to be a ***** but in case you don't realize it "you already got it" when you spent your first money. Now you are asking the questions.

Pat

 

A lawyer’s time and advice are his stock in trade.

And

A tuners time and advise are ??? What

10% mark up on parts

I once argued with a guy about cost.

Should a balding guy pay 1/2 price at the barber?

If it cost 500 million to get something delivered to the moon, should I take less because I can just jump up there and I'm headed there anyway?

Yeah,,, The other guy charged you 1/2 as much but he did it wrong, should I do it for less because you lost money there?

Now I just quit talking.

 

Well sorry pat I'm not perfect but I do like to attempt to do things on my own and if I fail then I fail or I try to learn from my mistakes I understand my car pisses off purists, hot rodders, traditionalists, heck my car pisses off a lot of people maybe webers are over my head maybe I should have just slapped a 4 barrel on it but I'm learning and it's good thing on other forums they have been receptive and positive and offering experience and solutions but you don't have to be negative but am I going to send money to anyone without knowing fully what I am purchasing no I'm not that's how I operate if you don't want to share your knowledge that's fine you don't have to but you don't have to share your negativity hot rodding was built on like minded individuals with a need to push boundaries and go outside the box which is what I am attempting to do and I'm glad you get a laugh out of others attempts at trying to achieve something it's a good thing you didn't travel in circles of some of the greatest hot rod builders in their youth while they were breaking boundaries and doing things outside the usual or Carol Shelby when he was running webers

 

The cost had nothing to do with the purchase the issue was I was not given a list of what I was purchasing

 

I get your point, but sometimes you have to play other guys games. I am sure it will run like a top with what ever he sends you. What would another dyno day cost(or two), and your time? You might have half or more of the parts already correct.

 

Yah I hear yah big deuce and agree with yah on it

 

Id love to see ya get the webers running right, and hear it (hint, hint - video).

The suggestion on the 4bbl was get a baseline. See if the 200 hp dyno pull is an engine or induction issue. .480 lift cam is pretty mild for a 383, peak power should be around 6k. Like someone said earlier, mph on the top end tells you if your tuning is making power gains.

 

I don't know webbers, but Jim does.
What if he said you're buying my Knowledge, Experience & Advice along with $5.00 worth of parts ?

Are the dyno guys doing any tuning?
What do you get for your money with these guys? Your **** dyno says car starts pulling where he let off. I'd a *****ed there for sure .

At anything other than a direct 1:1 ratio in the transmission, the engine torque (power) is being multiplied, and an acceleration dyno has no way of ascertaining the transmission gear ratios of the vehicle being tested.

Running a 4 speed 22 Muncie in third gear is not right. The 1.28 gear ratio would need to be factored into the rear gear ratio and corrected on the dyno. Say you have 3.55 gear then if the pull
Is done in third you need to enter 4.54 and it still would be off.
See post # 21 by @models916 and wonder which way it went ???

Look here
At the flywheel:
the 307 put out a very respectable 315hp at 5,200 rpm and 330 lb-ft torque at 3,800 rpm.

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https://instagram.com/p/5QPadbx9xc/


Here is a video

 

https://instagram.com/p/urredgx9_Y/

Doing 100mph

 

Is that in park - no load?
Did you roll into the throttle easy? Sounds like its kind of laboring to gain rpm.
Really sounds nice. boy at 8 seconds its like music!

 

No load just messing around in the garage when it really picks up and same with dyno that's when the main circuits are in full effect vs the idle circuit usually there is a stumble when you transition from the two circuits that is not really my problem however you can see it on the dyno graphs and when the air fuel at wot evens out I know my idle circuit is ****ed but that I can play with but the main at wot is not bad as on gt40s they believe I may have valve spring and reversion issues there is more videos and stuff on there to check out

 

3rd progression holes drilled??