Hot Rods How do you make a clutch linkage in a 32 frame?

So I have been thinking lately about a mechanical clutch set up for my 32 frame with Ch***is Engineering center cross member and their 2 pedal setup. I almost had it all figured out on how to use a hyd clutch set up, but I am thinking about a switch. Reference this thread: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...mbly-in-a-32-ch***is-with-ce-x-member.372416/

In that thread Tim Davis posted a link to his website and how he does it. If you scroll down on his web page he shows pics on how he does it. http://clarkehotrods.com/






So now for my questions:
What size tubing is used?
Do you need bearings on the ends of the tubing?
Basically in a nutshell, how do I make this? Please be very descriptive. Thanks

 

I prefer to use rods that are pull, rather than push. It's just a preference for me. Pull rods can be plain 3/8 solid mild steel, and you can use Hurst style plastic bushings with a rod with L bent ends, or use a clevis with a nylon bushing. Depending on how high up the pedal pivot shaft is, you may need to run the pedal rod as a push, like he did. There probably is not enough room without hitting the floor, if it was a pull rod with it's attaching point on the pedal, above the main pedal shaft

He is likely using larger tubing for ability to thread the heims into, but also to make the one that pushes, to not flex.

the last one I built was under floor 37 Ply, with a homemade bellcrank, and the crank ran on greaseable br*** bushings. The bushings mounted in 2 short pieces of pipe (with grease fittings) which were welded to 2 plates that bolted to frame rail and X leg. Need to make it all removable. Both were pull rods, and one crank lever was up and other is down

If you'd done a lot of these, it gets easy to guess at the lengths of the two levers on the bellcrank. I'd suggest multiple holes so you can change the ratio. If you do multiple holes on both levers, they don't need a lot of space between each hole to get the ratio perfect.

just a ball park for TOB ARM tip travel? try looking around one inch total to get close during mockup

During testing, put the trans in gear, then try to turn the output yoke with a bar, while slowly depressing the pedal. If you need to go all the way to the floor before it releases, that is not right. It needs a bit more throw distance on the ratio.

then when that is adjusted better, now push it to the floor, and with the bar feeling the yoke, slowly raise the pedal to see how far up it starts to drag the disc. Way up at top is not good,1/4 to 1/3 of pedal travel up is good
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Have you considered a set of 39 Ford pedals? The 39's clutch cross shaft goes through the brake pedal pivot placing the linkage arm inboard of the brake pedal. It was always the hot setup and a lot less fabrication work.

 

What Hot Rods Ta Hell said. It works great. No reinventing the wheel required.

 

Ok in order to make a final decision, I sure would like to see some pics please. So does anyone have pics of 39 Ford pedals in a 32 frame? Thanks in advance.

 

Seems like I remember Danny (Hot Rod Pro) did a thread and showed how he did it. HRP

 

If you're planning anything like the pics then some from of bearing or bushing in the cross shaft is essential. Without it the unlubricated metal on metal will rust up and the pedal effort will increase and the brakes will also not return properly unless you go overkill on the return spring, thereby entering a downward spiral of effort! Some years ago I purchased a project built like that and it was seized solid without ever having been in service! Plus it wasn't serviceable or removable. Grinder soon saw it in the s****!
Chris

 

I built something similar to your pictures but more compact. I had the Z bar in front of the master cylinder and the master cylinder moved back some. Mounts were home made but used original style pedals. I made the Z bar from 1-1/4 inch OD DOM tubing and machined the ends to accept original style Z bar ball studs. Bought a Z bar rebuild kit from one of the muscle car companies for a Camaro I believe, it had the ball studs, plastic bushings, clips, etc. I made it so the left end mounted to the frame and the right off a bracket attached to the T5. This works better than the one in the picture at preventing clutch chatter like a factory mounted one. I have some pics on another computer, will be tomorrow if you want to see them.

 

Yes please

 

Hey Brady -

F&J pretty much covered it. The rods are made from 1/2" OD DOM tubing, with the ends threaded for 3/8" rod ends. In more recent versions we use 1/4" thick material for the arms on the jackshaft, so the gusseting is not needed.

We do have the shaft on bushings, and there is a pivot pin removable from the inside of the X-Rail. You can see the bushing up against the outside of the X-member to take up the slack after the shaft is inserted in the bushing on the outside frame rail.

The pivot shaft is turned down smaller on the outside(frame rail side) so that it can fit into the bushing mounted in the boxing plate. Once inserted there is a gap from the end of the pivot shaft to the X-Rail. The bushing you can see in the picture goes in the gap, the the pin is inserted from the inside of the X-Rail. The pin and the bushing are cross drilled so they can be pinned to hold it all together.

At some point in the near future I would like to have some exploded views.

 

Here is a set up I built.

 

Here's some pic's of how I did mine with the Z-bar behind the pedals. Works great. I like tying the Z-bar to the motor/trans as this takes all of the axial load of pulling on the clutch off of the motor mounts. I had mine done at first where it was not connected to the motor. I put an indicator on the motor and it moved back around .030 when I pushed on the clutch pedal. I used stock Z-bar ball studs and components. The rods that are in compression I made from 1/2" round bar and the pull bar for the clutch from 3/8" round. All with LH/RH rod ends for easy adjustment. I used 7/8" as the travel distance I was trying to achieve at the clutch fork. The bracket hanging down off the Z-Bar mounts to the transmission. Special thanks to Andy on here for helping with the initial design of it.

 

Why all the h***le?----Go hydraulic & slave cyl.

 

Linkage doesn't leak, Deuce Daddy.

A wise far East philosopher once said: 'No leaky link!'

 

Keep the pics coming.. I saw the OP posted on a cable clutch thread, so I get the impression that these mechanical systems might seem daunting?

I find this type of fabrication to be enjoyable. Once you understand that it is a simple task to move the TOB, it's just a matter of mock ups.
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It's whatever fits the best, OR for some people, they think a hyd slave sounds so easy... like a "one wire alternator"

On some builds, mounting a slave and its master can be a space problem, or a problem of how to make a strong slave bracket to fit a particular vintage motor or bell.

My 32 has a hyd slave, not only because I wanted swing pedals to save room in the X area for exhaust, but also wanted the late 5os look of firewall mounted cylinders. It has a big early Olds Rocket and 37 Buick trans.

The last underfloor mechanical was also a big Olds, but with a T5. The owner reads a lot of catalogs, and ***umed a slave bracket "kit" was the way to go, but the mechanical worked so nice and smooth with the stock 37 Ply pedals, even with the Centerforce clutch.
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Building my '32 back in 1962,---we did NOT have all the great options you can experience today, with all the ads relating to a build of choice. Today you can just turn the page in most car magazines & select whatever suits you, from frames, running gear, & all related items.
Being a welder by trade, I was always fabricating all my own brackets, etc.
At first, I fabricated a 1/4 inch bracket to mount a slave cyl. to housing from motor to trans. housing. with a '39 box, & brake & clutch masters on the firewall, & swinging pedals.
This early setup proved N/G in the closed driveline & '41 differential,---Twisting axle keyways.
So, after 3 yrs. of road testing & local events, & looking ahead to drive to the NSRA Nats in Detroit in 1972.
Jacked up the roadster on 4 stands & cut everything loose from motor housing to rear & came back with new 4 spd. B/W trans., open driveline, & 9 inch Ford rear end, fabricating my own design trailing arms.
The previous bracket still worked fine, just a small extension on the slave cyl. rod.
Everything works great today after 300,000 happy miles!
Don

 

I am sorry but I don't know what a z-bar is. Or are you just saying that the linkage is shaped like a "z"?

And I think a mechanical linkage is more reliable.

 

it's just another term for the "bell crank"....the cross piece that both rods go to. I forget what the parts books call them, but I know bell crank and Z bar are generic terms.

There are a lot of variations on factory cars. Olds in the 50s used more of an upside down saddle shape, and the brake master cylinder fit in the middle of the saddle. So, basically the actual shape changes to fit what obstacles there are.

In most cases, they are used to alter the direction, or alter the angles/or offsets of linkages. Some cars like 61 Olds used two bellcranks, one on upper firewall, then down to one near the framerail. This happened when they went from underfloor pedals, to hanging pedals. They reused the older frame mounted one, and just added more linkage to get to the new pedal style.

My next one on a 1959 built old 30 chevy channeled rpu, will be hanging pedals like it once had, with a vertical pull rod hugging the inside of the firewall, down to a bell crank, then horizontal to the fork. The car was early Olds power with the 4 speed hydramatic, with a 55-57 chevy master on the firewall. I'd like to keep the firewall style as it originally was. I'm looking forward to making it work with parts I already have here.
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Do you have pedals already? If No, I would at least look for pics of the 39 Ford that was mentioned. If you got lucky with whatever motor/trans/fork and their locations, you might end up with a super simple single rod system, from pedal to fork.

if you already have purchased pedals, I am sure they can be made to work with the other linkage styles.
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Not exactly what you asked for but here is a '39 so you can see the clutch hook up.

 

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If his X member angle is close, that is exactly what was asked for....and with the X not in the way, you can see how simple it works with a single rod and no bell crank. But I don't know what his C.Eng. X looks like
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Well I have a set of pedals from ch***is engineering. So I have a choice to make:
1. Stick with original plan and use hyd clutch set up.
2. Modify my ch***is engineering pedals to use a mechanical set up.
3. Buy a set of 39 ford pedals and use a mechanical set up.
So what is my best option from everyone's experience?

 

Im my T-bucket I made linkage very similar to what Wayne-o posted ... mech =simple ....K.I.S.S.
dave

 

Hyd can go wrong if the slave and master are not sized correctly, because if you end up with a stiff pedal, or too soft that can't get enough throw, you'd need to change one cylinder. And then the new cylinder might not work with the brackets you welded in, and need to start over.

put up pics of how far along the build is. Is the body on? Is the column in? Is the engine trans bolted in? These need do be done, to get the pedals in the perfect comfort spot. A seat would be good for setup, too. Some sort of column or dummy column is needed to get the pedals in the right location, without hitting the column. A fake angled front upper floor is a plus, to know how far the pedal will go forward, so you can get the throw figured out.

The pedals need to be in the right place first. Then figure the best way from clutch pedal to the TOB arm. If a bellcrank is needed, then that is the 2nd step. Choose a rear mounted location or in front of the pedals, both types are shown in this thread.

A bellcrank starts off just like the axle and wheel on a wheelbarrow . It's just an axle shaft, with a pipe slid over it, with bushings or bearings. Then instead of a welded wheel, it is just two simple flat steel levers, that can be changed, if you messed up with where they need to fit, or how long they are. The rest is easy.

put up pics of where you are
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I put 36 pedals in my ch***is engineering x and the agle of the leg is not the same as ford so to will either need to slice and dice or make a add-on bracket like I did to make the pedals a straight pull, I also used f1 pedals with a homade mount before with a sbc/4spd combo.. Worked well

 

I have not read what clutch set up you are using. The '39 is going to be problematic unless you are using an early Ford clutch release as it pushes forward. Getting it to pull would be difficult and maybe more work than other set ups.

 

Oh sorry. 327 with 10 1/2 inch clutch. T5 ****** with chevy bell housing. Not the tilted T5 housing.

I will try to post a pic later.

 

This is a good thread. Different examples of what has worked for others.

 

Long ago we used some Deuce Factory pedals in an A with a frame mounted bell-crank, found that it pulled the engine back quite a bit on the stock Chevy side and tail-housing mounts, this case the owner just put a solid mount on drivers side and he was happy. A regular Z-bar to an engine mounted ball stud would been a better choice of you want mechanical linkage and have the room.
On the other hand a juice clutch using an external slave is a good option, never had any grief with them.

 

Here is my setup right now. The plate holding the clutch m/c is just bolted in right now, not welded.