Were "lakes style" headers really lakes style?

I researched the crap outta this exact issue before I made my new headers. In the book 'The Birth of Hot Rodding', I found several cars with this type of header. But....they extend further back than what we see today. This was actually part of the rules to run on the lakes. Consequently, I made mine go almost to the front of the back tire. Another point is the cars run on the lakes were to have exhaust that did not point towards the ground. Think of the dust that would've created!

 

then how did "lake pipes" become such a traditional kustom touch?

 

Thats a whole other topic, your talking kustoms and Kevin is talking hot rods.

 

a definite pause for thought. So, I went to photographic source, Hot Rod magazine 1950 and 1951. By 1950 and 51, HRM photo coverage of B'ville and lakes racing was extensive, roadster racing was declining and drag racing was just beginning. Exhaust systems, based on the HRM photos, appeared to fall into three categories. First, many of the oval racing roadsters had individual headers straight out from the engine and either down and back along the frame or straight back along the body. Many of these roadsters saw multi duty on the street, the oval and lakes. It appears that the ratio was about 50/50, in the roadster ranks, the remaining exhaust systems were under the chassis. Second, there were the hot rods, open and closed, street and lakes usage, again about a 50/50 ratio. Third, most of the true lakes and B'ville cars had their exhaust systems within the hood or body shape and under the chassis. This had more to do with streamlining, primarily. Understanding that early hot rod racing started on the lakes or dirt tracks, depending on what part of the USA, with open and closed cars, the term lakes style exhaust has more of a traditional, hot rod specific meaning. Lakes racing was hot rods. Roadster racing became associated with Indy. Track racing went the way of stock cars, USAC, NASCAR etc.

 

calling the chrome pipes on Customs "Lakes Pipes" is like calling a piece of hard tack scone an English Muffin, or a "potato chip" a "French Fry" or a Danish a "Danish"... It's just a name that allows two people who recognize it's application to know what theing each other is talking about. It doesn't really have to have anything real todo with the item itself.
(Yes, Im cooking breakfast as I type this...)

 

check out bass's post on his progress and plans for his model A, he shows a couple good examples of what was probably more comon as far as 'lakes' headers.

in the pictures he shows they are in fact split mid thirtys tubes but they run inside the rails and kinda poke out a touch under them, going along with the streamline though this is probably how it was done more ofter then not on a true lakes car.

though im sure alot of ppl ran them as we see today, as well, they look cool

 

This.......

 

Not this.......

 

Kevin,
I've seen some B&W pics from peoples collections and have seen several with a lakes style header like you're talking about.
As has been mentioned they normally extended way back toward the rear wheel.
I'm thinkin that most of the cars were banger powered, and didn't have much in the line of streamlineing going on. They were dry lakes racers, but may not have been dedicated land speed cars. Probably did dual duty as roundy round type of cars.
Most of the cars that we are familiar with I'm thinking were later cars when streamlining became an issue. They would obvoiusly have migrated toward tucking the exhaust and anything else that would catch wind in as much as possible.

Someplace in my travels I've seen some really old pics of really early dry lakes racers (some belonged to famouse folks I guess) that were some pretty raggedy lookin' SOBs. They had nothing in the line of streamlineing going for 'em at all, well the windshield etc removed. That would probably be the era that our version of a lakes style header is based on.

 

sorry me retard...

 

I think closest early parallel was the typical 4-branches out the side into looong funnel to rear headers used on four cylinder sprint cars--some of which mutated into lakes cars.
Best modern research sources: "When the hot rods Ran", 1938 lake pics; That big color book that's all postwar lakes pics, with maybe a few modern ringers..can't think of title.. and Dean Batchelor's early rodding book.
For early sources, I like the first several HRM books--"Hot Rods" from about '51 and the 1954 annual, especially. See what was really there.
You'll find interesting exhaust oddities, too...headers with a forward facing opening as well as rear, for instance...was that an attempt to help the exhaust...or an attempt at developing thrust?? Exhaust was something the average guy could experiment with cheaply when there was little money and maybe even less speed equipment around.

 

Last time I said this, the "experts" on the HAMB said I was full of shit. Are you full of shit too? Are we both full of shit?

 

Check the book 'The Birth of Hot Rodding'. Or 'Dry Lakes and Drag Strips'. Plent of good photos and reference material. Darn good reading,too.....if you're into that sorta thing.

 

The flexi stuff is definitely traditional, but it is from the era before much was known about air flow--I've heard it's really bad for flow. I think it was mostly used because it allowed easy and free exhaust system design.
Engine removal is not a big deal--the way the ports slant, a flatty can be lifted straight forward and up even from rigid headers. If worried, just add in flange that allows headpipe to be disconnected easily.

 

I have a "Hot Rod Handbook" with a bunch of lakes cars in it. Not sure on the year it was printed, but the tune-up specs page only goes to 1950. Many of the cars have hidden exhaust but here are a few with "lakes headers"

 

fuck that!! you cant lump my hot rod with lakes with those dumb ass trinkets. I could swear I have seen pics of lakes in the book "birth of hotrodding", not that is a bible or something but its a good pic reference to the era. Am I wrong I am at work so I cant check right now.

 

Nope, you're right. I finished mine last week. I'll get it outside for some pics hopefully this weekend. I went to great measures to make mine look the part of a '40's lakes car.....

 

On a LAKES inspired TRADITIONAL HOT ROD,
Headers make a statement...

On Lakes cars, the headers were often the signature piece of the car. They should be functional FIRST, and beautiful if possible.

They should be lovingly or hastily created by your own hand as an extension of your artistic vision for your car. They should "Make" the car.

Pre-fab headers aren't Traditional in my mind. Store-baught headers aren't traditional...

And I have LOTS of old lakes and salt flat pictures and I can honestly say that I don't EVER remember seeing a picture od a car with modern style "Lakes Headers."

 

There ya go. That's the best explanation I've heard yet.

 

Just a comment on the use of the flex pipe on your car. We used to use this stuff because it was cheap and we could route it around anything that might be in the way. But!! It went to hell in a hurry. Any moisture that accumulated in the pipe caused a rapid rust out problem. If you like "the look" of the flex pipe I suggest you run some real pipe through it. I'd hate to see anyone getting a huge dose of poison gas while driving down the road. Everywhere the pipe was welded rusted out even faster. Not good stuff!
Don.

 

To throw a bit more fuel on the fire:

First, about nomenclature; I think the terms "lakes pipes" or "lakers" are fairly recent developments. When I was a kid they were called "header plugs" or, among older guys, "cutouts". I can't speak knowledgeably about real lakes competitors -- I didn't know any -- but header plugs were very common on street cars that ran at the drags. Sometimes (on early fenderless cars) they were the classic over-the-frame variety, and other times they were hidden underneath, perhaps showing under the rocker panel. The long side pipes were called just that, and were never a feature of a car that actually raced in earnest.

On the subject of flex pipe: I'm sure the comment about their rusting out is valid, but "spaghetti headers" -- that's what they were really called -- made a wicked ratty noise. I'd love to see/hear some again, even if they only last a month!

 

We called them 'lakes pipes' in the 60's (incorrectly), but in case my CRS was acting up I checked. The rest of the terminology you nailed with the functional lakes version being advertised as 'lakes plugs' (Honest Charley ad 1960) It appears they were copied on the street by 1962 and were called 'side pipes' exactly as you stated. (HRM ad 1962)

..back to the original post, when did the term 'lakes headers' originate? It is used today to describe anything that copies or resembles Sanderson's "Lime Fire" header . The earliest mention of the term (lakes style headers) I can find is used by Speedway to describe their copies of the Lime Fire... possibly it's a term coined to avoid legal issues which then became a generic description?

CC

 

Check the lakes pipes on the Ken Gross 32 roadster. I think the ones he put on his hot rod, are the first style, or a least a very common style, post WW2.

Jan 2001 Street Rodder pages 56-61.

 

It's interesting to see the different kinds choosen back then.
I think it is important to choose the period you like to place your car in, if that is interesting.
To me it is.
40's lakes/street dual purpose tells me that my cut outs will run just inside/under the frame rail with a cap ending the pipe somewhere between the rear door end and the rear wheel.
Will make it semi difficult to reach, but it can be seen in lot's of the old pics.


Then we have the car of Mr. Livingstone.

It's a 40's ride with a "modern Lakes pipe" kinda angle to the pipes.

Look closely at the pic. Looks like he has put in a small angeled pipe piece to make the outlet more horisontal.
Most likely due to regualtions against exhaust stiring up dust on El-Mirage etc.

Few cars had beautyfull pipes. The rest was kinda crappy homemade hardware store material.

HELMET is a lucky man cause he can make the most beatyfull headers in Hot Rod History, just because he has too.

Paul

 

The Fred Lobello roadster had a really long lakes-style header coming from the B banger, as I recall.

Correct or not, they sure look cool. I'll bet if you'd showed up at El Mirage in '46 with a set on your roadster, a buncha guys would have copied them.