Technical Someone school me on solenoids and actuators

Let me preface this by saying YES , I have searched and read info on the subject , buy I'm still a bit confused.
The info: the car is my 49 Ford Coupe with shaved outer handles - I changed to large bear claw latches on the doors. I'm looking to open the 2 doors with remotes. I don't mind pulling a cable to release the trunk.
With that said , I'm looking to add a remote door release system . Locally , I don't mind reaching in through the window, but I'd like the car to be fairly secure while on my route 66 trip with my pop in a few months . The problem is , I'm old-school , and don't know what I'm looking at with this stuff . Should I be looking at actuator kits or solenoid kits ? Do actuators have enough power to pull large bear claws on an old car ? Are solenoids too strong, and will do damage to bear claws (someone told me this) ?? I've looked into both options , and cost difference is negligible , so it's really about what I really need.

So there ya have it - school me guys . What kit would you recommend buying , or recommend staying away from? What kits have you guys used with success or not ?

Thanks in advance !!

 

Not sure if this helps, but you want to look at the distance the latch arm moves and get something with the same length movement. Too much difference could damage either end, not enough and it won't open.

 

I got nuthin', but thank you for not saying "Selanoid".
That and "***mings" drives me up the wall.

 

Yea , I've read and considered this. I can probably alter the length of the latch release arm to help with this as well. I've also read about changing the interior handle release rod to a cable to cut down on pressure needed to pop the latch. Not sure if this matters much with the bear claw latches , as it doesn't seem excessive to unlatch the doors. Maybe solenoid are more than powerful enough ? I've also read about Balls Motors , but can't find much info other than Balls street rod parts that supply solenoids and actuators , which further confuses me , lol.

Ha-ha , no kidding. Stuff like that makes me nuts sometimes as well.

 

Can you post a couple of links to the products you're looking at? I'm thinking that you just have multiple names for the same thing.

A solenoid is just an electromagnet. Wrap a lot of wire around a hollow core bobbin. Add a steel plunger that fits inside the bobbin. When electricity is applied to the coil winding, it creates a magnetic field that pulls the plunger in to the bobbin. You can attach something, like a rod or cable, to the plunger and whatever is attached to the other end will be pulled by it. Or you can attach a crank arm with a pivot, if you want to trade activation distance for force. Add a return spring to reset the plunger when the electricity is removed. If this is electronically controlled, also add a diode to keep the electric spike generated by the collapsing magnetic field when the power is cut from blowing out whatever electronics are involved.

I suspect that "actuator" is just another name for "solenoid plus a bunch of stuff to connect it to your door latch".

The only things that should matter are:

1. Will it fit? Can you physically mount it in the door somewhere and connect it to the door latch?

2. Does it have enough pulling force to pop the latch release mechanism? Solenoid pull strength can be varied by the size of the wire used and the number of windings around the core. This isn't adjustable, so whoever creates the ***embly has to know how much oomph is needed to do the job.

3. Does it have enough pull distance to pop the latch? If the solenoid provides enough pull, but not far enough, the latch won't open.

I doubt that any commercially available electronic latch release is going to damage your latches. Maybe something home brewed could, eventually, if it wasn't well thought out.

Replacing the inner handle attachment with a cable seems a good idea, so the solenoid only has to trip the latch release, not also move the handle and its mechanism.

 

Pick your battles man, it's the only way to keep your sanity.
All the crazy **** in the world and that gets you up a wall.
Something like swapping in " sell " where "sale" should be seems to be worth while cause.
Up for sell is this thing I don't have to sale, no lowballers.
Makes ya want to waste their whole day
,

 

Bear claws release load is pretty low, unlike original latches. I like "actuators" since they are smaller and take a lot less current. They are small electric motors pulling back on the release thru a gear drive . I used a kit made by Spal - yes, the fan people - works great. I think Balls actuators are similar- are actually used on modern cars for door locks.

 

I've been using Ball's motors in all my builds for about 30 years. They are NOT a solenoid, they are a gear reduction motor, and they are reliable, and pretty strong. They shouldn't have any problem opening up a Bear Claw latch, but some of the old original latches can be quite stiff. But even they will work if they are cleaned and lubed up.
On some door latches I will extend the arm they are releasing the latch, to match the 'throw' of the Ball's. Gives them a bit more leverage. I still run an emergency release cable, in case of motor failure, or fuse, wiring or battery problems (even had a guy go swimming, with the remote in his pocket, and was glad to have the emergency cable!)
Don't like solenoids, seen them burn up too many cars.

 

Where do you usually get those Balls Motors ? Got some kinda link to help an uninformed dude like me see what the heck they are all about (please ) . I'm pretty curious about them , as I don't really want my car to burn up.

 

Look on youtube.

 

OK , I must be friggin' stupid or something , but I went to YouTube and searched Balls door Motors , ball's door Motors , Balls door poppers , ball's door poppers , Balls door actuators , ball's door actuators , and several other ways of looking for it ..
And came up nothing' - what the hell am I doing wrong ?!!? I'm certainly not new to YouTube , LOL ! Maybe I'm using the wrong wording . Damnit , I didn't think it would be hard to find a friggin' video , ha-ha !!

Just lookin to see these wonder actuators that come well recommended , especially by chopolds

 

I just looked for door poppers. Not sure about the ball motors. Solinoid is as simple as it gets . Properly fed and protected should be bulletproof. Sorry forthe confusion.

 

Doorpoppers is a generic term. Solinoid/actuator trip latch. Popper moves door. There was even a bear claw video.

 

I have to agree with Chopolds. The gear reduction actuator is the only way to go. They have lots of power and don't pull many amps under load. They are quiet also. I too have seen solenoids stick or hang in the pulled position. Then you can't shut your door or trunk.

 

solenoids work great! check out power door locks, if you look most have linkage that changes the ratio of activation! pick and pull has lots of choices but aftermarket ones like the linear ones Ball makes are great!

 

http://ballsrodandkustom.com/index.php
Not a lot of info on the site, but you can see what they have. They are long time hot rodders, and know what they are talking about. Now in FL, used to be in Indiana, I believe.
I have put them in my daily drivers, and for others, too, as well as weekend-only cars. Had more remotes fail, than the actual motors. But like I said, an emergency cable is a great idea. I also don't like using cables to connect motor to latch. I bend up a coat hanger, or piece of welding rod, they don't stretch, or come loose like cables.
I've found that most electric door lock motors dont' have enough power to pop most old car latches, and even if they do, they are overworked, and soon fail. Solenoids DO hang up, and fail, or else they continue to draw, and burn up your wiring, and perhaps your car!
Been doing this stuff for about 40 years now, so I've seen a lot. Thanks for listening, Buddy!
Another tip for a cheap way to use the actuators.....get an alarm switch for a door or window fro your local hardware store. A magnet will trip them (close the circuit). Wire it up to a Bosch style relay, then to the door actuator. Hide the window switch behind a piece of stainless, or at the edge of your gl*** (anything NON magnetic) A bar magnet hanging from your keychain will trip it and open your door. Cheap and reliable!

 

I'm kinda puzzled how a door solenoid failure can burn a car. They should be on a fused circuit to keep anything like that from happening. In my other hobby I work with lots of solenoids. Rarely do I see one fail where somebody hasn't done something stupid like replacing the fuse with a bolt.

 

Lol , I thought you meant to look on YouTube for the balls Motors - oops !

Chopolds - I figured you were talking about the actuators from Balls rod and custom , but wasn't sure . I thought maybe there was a specific manufacturer named Ball . It looks like they don't have a complete kit. Do you just ***emble the parts yourself, and just use their actuators ? If so , maybe that's what I'll have to do as well. I love the hidden magnet idea - might have to look further into that as well. I thought that switching to the bear claws would be the hard part of the job , ha-ha !

 

http://www.ballsrodandkustom.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=128

Here's a kit for 2 doors with a remote. They used to sell kits with the magnetic switches, but no longer. I believe they use some sort of actuator that is used in RV's, from what I heard. I do it whatever way the customer wants, with remotes, with their kit, or just buying actuators, and use them with magnetic switches, or just weatherproof ****ons under the rocker. I keep lots of basics in the shop, like the relays, terminals and plugs for them, and different types of ****ons and switches, but they're easy to source.
David, I've seen quite a few burn up. If the solenoid doesn't open immediately, some guys just lean on the ****on, which is usually without a fuse. Too much current, burn the wires. Or...if the guy uses a ****on or switch that can't handle the current, the switch itself can stick and allow constant voltage to the solenoid. Fuses would have to be pretty hi amp, as solenoids can use a lot when first engaging and pulling a latch. So I think a lot of guys just don't use them, after blowing the usual amperage fuses.

 

Ya know what ... Now that I see that link, I did look at that setup. It just didn't register with me. I guess you just add whatever actuator you want then. This might be my answer. I do like the idea of an actuator, if it will pull the latch. I ***ume it's pretty easy to add the actuators to the setup ?

Thanks again.

 

Ok yeah, that sadly makes sense. Fuses are critical to not burning something else, but some people don't seem to get that. They seem to focus on fixing the symptom (fuse blows) by upping the fuse until it stops blowing. Then something else that's much more valuable burns instead. And using parts that can't handle the load, leading to failure, also unfortunately makes sense.

I'm surprised that holding the ****on would keep the solenoid energized. Don't they drive these with a one shot circuit? I would, if I were building it.

I guess I've spent too many years playing with solenoids. They seem simple to me. I don't want them opening my doors, I like my door handles just fine.

 

I'm also curious if the actuator just wires into the kit?

 

http://www.ballsrodandkustom.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=5


Cool . Affordable too. Thanks

 

Excuse this noob, but would you wire the above gears the same way you would any other kits? Looking to do this over the winter.

 

That's a pretty stoudt-looking actuator with the motor on the side. It doesn't look like the ones on Ball's website ... Who's is that?

 

Well I've done both systems several times for different people. Personally I don't like actuators. In my 51 I have solenoids. I don't use fuses, I use circuit brakers for them. Sooner or later you will have an issue with both systems like it or not. With bear jaw or stock latches it's all about the throw to keep things working. I build a bell crank to balance things out. Take the latch arm movement and the Solenoid travel and make use of full travel of both through the bell crank. I also make solid links, never use cable. They are like a lit fuse. They are going to give you problems in a short time. I think it's Juliano's that makes the holo tube door check strap. That's all I use any more to run the wires through. Never put a full time 12 volt wire into the door. Use a relay under the dash and have live power only in the door while release power is activated. You'll never burn down a car that way. Here is a photo of my 12 year old build that I drive nearly daily and so far have only had 1 issue with driver door. It was water related and cured with a rubber boot. Look it over and ask me anything you want. Just remember, my way isn't the only way but it sure works good for me.
The Wizzard

 

I should add to this. I always de activate the manual door lock system. Your not going to leave the Key lock in the door if your removing the door handle. Trust me on this. It really stinks when you shut the door with the window up and the lock ****on drops down.
The Wizzard

 

Whatever you do, do not ever, EVER, EVER purchase ANYTHING from a company called Autoloc.

 

Tell us about your autolock issues. I had to look at my remote to remember who's it is.Guess what.
The Wizzard