Technical 4 X 2 Flathead intake manifold

Hi Everyone,
i am trying to find out how many manufactures made a 4 X 2 inline manifold for Flatheads.

Thanks larry

 

At least 4.

 

Start with Edelbrock, Evans, Wieand. Tattersfield, Edmunds, Schnell. E & S made a staggered 4x2

 

Planning on overcarburetion?

Even if you use 81's, you are looking at 520cfm. 97's would be 600cfm, and 48's come in at 700cfm.

 

Even if you use 81's, you are looking at 520cfm. 97's would be 600cfm, and 48's come in at 700cfm.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your replies,
I am "Considering" running an inline 4 X 2 manifold with EFI 97's from Mike Davidson at Flatattack Racing in South Australia, The engine will probably be about 276 ci

Any suggestions as to whether any particular manifold is / was superior to the others ?

Thanks for your help, larry

 

I'm running 4 x 2 on my 276 flathead running 97s runs just fine.

 

How's about the Lattin? Some were reproduced recently.

 

Manufacturers of vintage 4 X 2 Flathead intake manifolds are as follows - Inline - Edelbrock, Evans, Austin Speed Shop, Weiand, Tattersfield-Baron, Baron, Edmunds, Schnell, E & S, Fenton, Sharp, Grancor, Grim, Kosma, Lightning (Warren Boardman). Staggered or Grouped 4 X 2 Flathead intake manifolds - A & R Racing, Ruel, Tholen, E & S Marine, Miller. These are the ones I know of and there may be others that I have failed to mention.

 

I wonder what a tailpipe sniffer would say....

 

AFR is governed by the size of the ifr's, PVCR's and mains( all of which are changed by any competent tuner ), not the number of carburators... I generally just keep my mouth shut on HAMB carb threads and let the bs roll, but this is just too stupid and uninformed to ignore...

 

Thanks for the replies,
cully33, i luv your coupe, quickchange v8, that list is bigger than i thought, i read somewhere, on what i think was this forum, but i know i haven't been able to find it again, but someone said that they had Two, 4 x 2 Offenhauser Manifolds ?. I have found 2 blokes here in Australia that say they have NOS 4 x 2 manifolds, one of them has a NOS Tattersfield and the other bloke has an Edelbrock, a Tattersfield and a third make that he can't recall the name of, All are NOS, He told me only yesterday that he hasn't seen any of them for a while, so he is going to search through his stuff and get back to me,

Thanks Again for your inputs, larry

 

I tune everything with a wideband oxygen sensor. That's why I speak up.

I have seen cars pushing soot, running at 10.7:1 at idle, warm, snuffing plugs in 100 miles, getting 9mpg, that customers said were "running fine".

I once pulled a Holley 1050 Dominator off of a mild 350. The customer liked the look, but said it had a "little flat spot".

Running a cumulative cfm far beyond that which is required by even the most optimistic estimate of engine volumetric effeciency, at the most ridiculous RPM doesn't create power, it creates waste, and makes for difficult tuning.

 

Running a cumulative cfm far beyond that which is required by even the most optimistic estimate of engine volumetric effeciency, at the most ridiculous RPM doesn't create power, it creates waste, and makes for difficult tuning.[/QUOTE]

I am going to be using Mike Davidsons, from Flatattack racings, EFI 97's I am hoping this will overcome any excess fuel wastage and constant tuning issues

Thanks, larry

 

Not trying to stir the pot here, just telling how it is on my coupe, the carbs were all new 97s I jetted them down and changed the power valves, balanced all carbs with a good air flow meter, I did not find it that difficult to tune. The engine starts fine and idles good, I don't have any flat spots, it pulls hard and I have had no problems with fouling plugs, I did a 3,500 mile road trip with the coupe in 2013 check the link and only had to change 2 plugs, not because they fouled but the firing tips burnt off.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/aussi-speed-week-road-trip-in-32-coupe.783128/

 

I have never fiddled with a four-carb in person (I have that penciled in as something I need to do in my next hundred years) but have talked with one experienced racer and heard from a bunch more on here...there are several good threads on this. I do have an Edelbrock to look at, and lots of Strombergs...
A basic thought developed from looking into the Edelbrock type and discussing...they function essentially as IR designs. The connections between the port areas are small and look inefficient. Each port, then, if prevailing thought is correct, is fed mostly by ONE BARREL. Flatdog (high 12 second, 3,000 pound, smoothly streetable '34!) went from 3 to 4 carbs at one point in his development and felt that it gave an undercarbureted problem to his 307 flathead. He went back to three...
Total CFM on an IR is not a useful number, if each cylinder can only "see" the CFM from a single barrel.
From what I have heard the Edelbrock sort of on the fence somewhere between true IR and a manifold, probably tending pretty strongly to the IR side of things. Look up into the ports of one...
I believe the Evans has sort of pods around two carbs at a pod, allowing individual cylinders to draw on more carb.

 

Bruce is absolutly right!

 

Here's my 4x2 setup edlebrock manifold and Hollie carbs but on a (56olds)

 

Look at it thus:
Flatheads from 1934 up and the great majority of aftermarket manifolds for them are 180 degree, two plane. The carb and manifold designs allow only minor flow between sides.
So...on a stock Ford, each cylinder draws on ONE barrel of a car on each intake event. Usually considered to be a bit too little.
One with two carbs draws on two usually just fine, and three carbs expose 3 barrels to each cylinder.
The four carb, if it really operates as IR, is back to one! On a true fully isolated IR setup (think about those 1960's English hotrod/racer cars sporting two 2-barrel Webers as big as the four banger) very large carbs are routinely used, thoroughly trashing internet maximum flow charts.
On an Edelbrock Flathead 4, there is obviously room for some unknown amount of flow between cylinders, which seems to have been designed about right for the typical uses...if these things were true sealed-off IR setups they would likely be way undercarbed with little 97's.

 

If, and only if the manifold is set up to be effectivly IR, then this is a totally different ball game.

 

But it doesn't mean that it automatically runs rich. In fact, if there is ANY correlation (tenuous at best) between too much cfm and AFR, overcarburated combos will run LEAN, due to reduced booster signal. That's why overcarburated combos need more pump shot. And I use a wideband too, but I tuned for years without one, that's why I understand the principles behind how carbs work. Expensive tools does not equal competence or understanding. And if by chance, you are using this "formula" CIDxrpm/3456 to relate to carb cfm numbers taken at 1.5" hg, then you have no business messing with a wideband, you need to go back and learn how engines and flowbenches actually work.
Poorly set up dominators (and 660 center squirters) run rich at idle because the IFR's that they come out of the box with are very large, not because "big carbs run rich". I was setting up dominators to run on the street before wideband sensors even existed

 

I didn't imply that it would run rich. That's you, reading what you want to see. If you miss the context, I cannot help you.

I own a nice flow bench, and now how that works, too.

Curb your enthusiasm George. I've been buiding and tuning successful race cars and street cars for over 30-years.

I've taken IR Webers to 247mph, and have turned the screws on several LSR cars, well over 300.

I won't defend my experience. For that, you can ask my 200+ customers, on both coasts of the U.S., and a few in Germany.

 

Larry, I can tell you without any doubt whatsoever that Offenhauser did not make a 4 X 2 flathead intake manifold.They made a 3 X 2 flathead manifold and that is as far as they went. A NOS Tattersfield would be painted blue as Tattersfield painted all of their flathead intakes blue. If the intake is NOS then most or all of the blue paint should be still on the intake. I have seen a 4 X 2 flathead intake(can't remember the brand) in a 1934 coupe in Mark Kirby's old shop in Dundee Michigan and the car ran absolutely great. I still remember Mark starting up that engine and that was over 10 years ago.

 

Thanks quickchangeV8,
Yeah other than the posting i saw, i haven't found one other single reference to a 4 X 2 Offenhauser. With the blokes here in Australia, when i find out more, i will post it on here, The bloke with just the one Tattersfield 4 X 2 is through a third person, The bloke with the 3 different manifolds, i am in direct contact with and he has said to me he will search them out and maybe i can get some photos and post them as well

Thanks, larry

 

I have that Edelbrock 4x2, and it does have a common plenum. There are some close traces of IR, but actually about 50/50 plenum/IR. I chose a different route for carbs.

 

EFI

 

If you want to run EFI you are going to have to contact those who work with it, directly, via private conversations. Posting it on the open, main board will get the thread deleted.

EFI is not a problem for most of us, but it is a problem for this board.

 

OK X38 and gimpyshotrods, I get the message and thanks for the tip

 

I went for a ride in that car, and that engine performed as good as it sounded!

 

Alexander made a staggered 4 x 2 intake. Picture is from Street Rodder magazine

 

THIS DIRECT PORT EDDIE MEYER MANIFOLD COULD BE TUNED FOR STREET USE BUTT IT WOULD BE A PAIN IN THE TAIL FOR DAILY DRIVING.....