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Technical Smiths Little torch or what?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by VonMoldy, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
    Member
    from UTARRGH!

    Is it a good idea to buy a Smiths little torch over a standard medium duty OXY/AC kit? I learned to braze and weld with a standard torch but lots of people recommend getting a really small jewelers type torch for welding.

    Am I better off buying something like this below for $180 that has nearly everything I would need and the ability to cut as well. Or buying a little torch or a meco midget torch?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. You can always put a small tip on a big torch, but you can't put a big tip on a small torch. And personally, I wouldn't buy anything but a Victor torch....
     
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  3. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
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    from UTARRGH!

    good point. Would you only buy victor because of parts and interchangeability?
     
  4. Yes. I bought a off-brand torch (Craftsman) for my first, when tips became hard/impossible to get, what good was it? Victor has stuck with the same design for years, you can always get parts. You'll pay more for a Victor set (but not that much more), but worth the money IMO. If you can afford it, go with two-stage regulators too. The single-stage work fine, but if you buy smaller bottles, the two stage won't require constant adjustment as bottle pressure drops. I'd buy a good used Victor setup over a new anything else, you might check the local ads/pawnshops.
     
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  5. inthweedz
    Joined: Mar 29, 2011
    Posts: 628

    inthweedz
    Member

    I've used both, and in confined spaces found that the heat coming from the work was too close my hand with the small torch..
    There is quite a large selection of tips for the bigger torch. I acquired some "panel Tips" and modified them ( cut off the small thread, and bronzed the larger thread of the standard tips, worked out good )..
     
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  6. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
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    from UTARRGH!

    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  7. LWEL9226
    Joined: Jul 7, 2012
    Posts: 360

    LWEL9226
    Member
    from So. Oregon

    If I were you I would buy the Victor Performer........

    I have had one for 40+ years with no problems, and the new tips will mix and match with
    the old stuff..........

    Lynn W
     
  8. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
    Member
    from UTARRGH!

    The victor performer I found is machined in USA and assembled in mexico. the smiths torch set which is now owned by miller is made in usa. the victor has lots more tips kind torn between the two.
     
  9. I'd still go with the Victor.... you can get Victor tips just about anyplace welding supplies are sold, not so much with other brands. Victor has more types of tips also.

    Keep in mind that any 'starter set' you buy will only come with 'basic' tips. Both the welding and cutting tips will be too large for most automotive-type work.
     
  10. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
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    from UTARRGH!

    Is the performer torch too big or will it be okay for lots of welding? I don't need a big heavy duty torch.
     
  11. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,158

    Rex_A_Lott
    Member

    I prefer the Smith, because its what I learned with, its what the old man had and its what I've still got. I also used the Victor stuff when I went to vocational school, its OK, just not what I prefer.
    I have been looking at the Cobra/Henrob whatever they are calling it this week. The guy doing the demo at the car shows makes it look pretty good for lightweight stuff, you may want to check that out also. Good Luck.
     
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  12. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,323

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj

    I had a jeweler's torch for a while, then bought a Smith's, because Tinman had the tips for it. Both worked very well for doing sheet metal.
    If you're looking for a "first" torch, you'll want something larger, so it's more versatile, for cutting and heating and such.
     
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  13. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,045

    rooman
    Member

    If you are doing anything but bodywork (and need to cut stuff or apply lots of heat for bending etc) I would go with the Victor. For sheet metal alone a Smith Airline (not the "little") is the goods as it is a lot lighter (both torch and hoses) so there is less fatigue. The discussion about parts availability is a little bogus--how often do you need to replace tips?
    The Dillon/Henrob/Cobra does have the advantage of having the best gas mixing tips but the "pistol" grip design is a little funky and does put your hand a little closer to the heat source. A long time ago in a land far, far away I had a set of Dillon's original tips (purchased from Dillon himself) for my Comet Jr torch and that was the best package that I have ever used for gas welding. The Comet Jr was distributed by CIG (Commonwealth Industrial Gasses) and was about the size of a Smith Airline and like the Smith it had the valves towards the tip end of the torch where you could make a one hand adjustment if you needed to.
    A "jeweler's" torch is probably a little small for a lot of automotive use but the Smith Airline is just about perfect for most bodywork projects.

    Roo
    ps I have both a Smith Airline and a Victor
     
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  14. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
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    from UTARRGH!

    went to a welding supply place and checked out the victor performer and thought it was great and not too big and heavy and I like that it can use cutting gear and has some more heavy duty capacity. I was blown away but how much oxy/fuel cost. I was quoted $540 for a set of smaller bottles. I think 80cubic feet. insane!
     
  15. lease the bottles....
     
  16. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
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    from UTARRGH!

    Why would anyone buy them? And why did the guy assume I wanted to buy them? When I fill gas for my MIG its like $30.
    What do you guys pay for oxy/fuel and lease the bottles?
    Thank you for being patient with my rookie questions.
     
  17. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    The issue Von, is whether you want to pay only when you need to refill, or monthly, as in a lease setup.
    I have used a Victor for nearly 50 years and wouldn't consider a different make.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
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  18. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,158

    Rex_A_Lott
    Member

    It all depends on the distributor. Some of them lease, some dont. Some wont fill anybody else's bottles except the one they lease, so if you own your own, you have limited choices. Just make sure you check all your options and find out the deal before you sign anything or put down your money. The lifetime leases are worthless if the company goes belly-up.Good Luck
     
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  19. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
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    from UTARRGH!

    what do you guys pay for your bottle setups? I am so shocked at the expense I might not go the oxy route and find a really cheap tig. oxy seems better with more versatility of heating weldong and cutting.
     
  20. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    Victor user here too. I used the big Journeyman for years when I was in heavy equipment but the smaller Victor junior is all an auto mechanic will ever need. Also there are a lot of knock offs so tips are easy to find anywhere. I would like a smaller torch sometimes and have been toying with the idea of getting a Cobra.
     
  21. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    As long as a Supply will fill your bottles...I'd shop around to own a set. Pref good, and used!
     
  22. Rex_A_Lott
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,158

    Rex_A_Lott
    Member

    Totally different tools. If you only have one, make sure its the O/A rig. Dont forget if you buy a TIG, you have to have a bottle for it , too.
    Also wanted to echo what was said earlier about making sure you buy the two-stage regulators.
     
  23. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    If you are doing much sheet metal you want two stage regs.
     
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  24. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
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    yeah I know tig is different but I can do either I mostly want either for the softer smaller heat afffected welds.
     
  25. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

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    from UTARRGH!

    thanks for the heads up I imagine the two stage regs offer finer adjustment.
     
  26. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,339

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    In my experience, they will hold a steadier flame at low pressures.
     
  27. If this is your first welding equipment, give serious thought to what you intend to do with it. A oxy-acetylene set is the most versatile in terms of how many different things you can do with it (solder, braze, weld, cut, heat) but like most 'do-all' tools isn't always the best choice for a specific task. Remember that all the other types of welders/cutters like plasma cutters, stick, MIG and TIG are specialized tools that do a better job and/or offer more options at a particular task. If your primary intended use is steel sheetmetal work, a MIG outfit will probably be a better choice if you're on a budget. Again, if you go with gas, additional tips will be your first purchase as the 'basic' welding/cutting tips included with most 'starter' sets will be far too large for thin materials.
     
  28. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,323

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj

    Gotta disagree with Steve. Having gas as your first welding"tool" is a great choice. You can do so much more than just weld, like a MIG welder. You can cut, heat to free, or bend, solder, braze, weld, just about any kind of metal. Yes, you CAN weld aluminum and pot metal with it! It is the most versatile tool in my shop. Of course you DO have to have a higher skill set to use it, but when you accomplish this, you will be able to do higher quality work. Even the masters of sheet metal, like Kent White, prefer gas welding on sheet metal in most cases. He even demonstrates the superiority of gas welding aluminum, to TIGing it in one of his videos.
    Quality + versatility, can't beat that!
     
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  29. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
    Member
    from UTARRGH!

    very good advice. I have a lincoln mig. I want oxy setup so I can cut and weld. I think a oxy or tig is more suited to the thin sheetmetal of body work I like the idea of a smaller heat affected zone and a softer weld. then there are things where a mig just makes more sense.
     
  30. VonMoldy
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 1,562

    VonMoldy
    Member
    from UTARRGH!

    I agree as much as I love tig welding oxy is so much more versatile and welding aluminum I have done as well as brazing which is another awesome thing about oxy. tig was only invented in the forties I believe and imagine how much stuff like airplanes was oxy welded or brazed before and after tig. also oxy welding is just so peaceful and quiet!
     

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