Hi Everyone, I have looked for this and do not see much if anything on it. I wanted to know about putting in a Flathead Ford Engine in place of a small block Chevy with a 700R4 trans. I see the adapter for the 700R4 trans is available. What about the engine change? Has anyone put a Flathead Ford in where a small block Chevy was? I am just wanting to up the cool factor of my 50's looking rod, I have never owned a Flathead Ford but are liking them more and more. I have a line on a 1953 truck motor that runs and is complete for $500.00. Seems like a good starting point for this. Thoughts?
I might as well be the first a-hole to tell you to put a T-5 behind the flathead! I love mine!! If a clutch is not a problem(medical) for you,You will be much happier with the T-5! Pete
You might also consider s****ping your television and only listen to AM radio, quit emailing/texting and only use snail mail, etc., etc. But if you are determined to go this route, the two most significant changes you'll likely have to make are the engine mounts and a radiator with two upper and two lower hose connections. As for the mounts, it really depends on the ch***is you have. "50s looking rod" isn't very informative when trying to give more detailed suggestions. Wiring, fuel lines connections, carb linkage, etc., are (or should be) all pretty simple to work out. One thing about flat head Ford V8s, well, two things......many have cracks in the block and they vary from 'not a big deal' to a 'very big deal'. The other thing is, they tend towards running hot very easily and require attention to all components in the ignition and cooling systems. Best wishes with your project. Ray
what car? the so called "cool" factor of the flathead, IN MY OPINION is negated by the automatic. in the late fifties, all the cool kids had small blocks. my thought [you asked] is i would never pick a ford flathead over a chevy, belly ****on, or what ever else these great little motors are called . i know i will be in the minority on the forum, as this is a flathead ford is king kinda place. flatheads fords; " you will never spend so much, for so little horse power". ok flame away.
Pete and Ray have given you some good advice, the 700 will take away a lot of the 110 horsepower the 53 FH supplies, where the T-5 will not. If the FH has never been boiled out, then it probably still has it old original rust inside and probably will run a little hot at 60 mph. The FH's seem to use a little oil if not a fresh motor and the mains leak some, not big items, just annoying. They are neat looking engines which everyone loves, me included but I would rather have an overhead valve engine more. I hope this helps. Sonny
The car is a low slung T, so it is all open. This is pretty much exactly what it will look like; Lots of room for motors and such. It is low weight so pretty much anything will move it. While I would LOVE to have a 5 speed with either motor, the auto is a must. This rod is just for cruising fun, this swap idea may not be a good one, I have just never owned a Flathead in anything and have always thought they were cool. Since this is a toy I thought "Why not". If the Flathead can't be made reliable in my application or swapped without a full redesign then, this may not be a good idea, I might need to simply put a cool intake on the Chevy motor to get the vibe I want and call it a day - but I wanted to check with some people that know a bit more about it. Here is what really pushed me to look into it, for me the look is perfect as well as the sound. Either way I APPRECIATE your thoughts and advice!
If an automatic is a must, then either a Ford C-4 Cruiseomatic or an Aluminum case Powerglide would be better choices than the 700R4. It is much larger, heavier and power absorbing than either of the two alternative recommendations. The Powerglide would be my choice since you apparently have a flathead to Chevy adapter located. It is light and has a small main case and low power requirements. As you point out, it will be a light weight car and the PG will work just fine for normal driving. Ray
Dimensionally, everything should be easy. Engine overall dimensions are nearly identical. Radiator will be special and pricey. Mounts...front mounts would be simple, but should probably be supplemented. Start with simple tabs to take Pre-53 truck mounts or a rail-to-rail strap to pick up the '53 type pumps...this could incorporate the '53 mounts OR be made to bolt directly to pumps and sit on early Ford biscuits at each end. BUT you will now have an engine with a very long span between front and rear mounts and really too much stress on the trans case. I would handle this by using either of the 2 biscuit front mount setups a mention then building simple brackets that bolt to the lower 3 or so bellhousing bolts on each side at back made to sit on another pair of biscuits there. Engine weight is thus contained...use an old and soggy trans mount to be completely sure engine mounts (Use the good quality biscuits like original Ford, NOT the **** ones you can squeeze) are stiffer than trans mount.
Yes they make an adapter to put a flatty in front of almost any AOD. The GM and the ford are really popular choices so you shouldn't have any problem with the adapter. Putting the flathead in place of a small block should be no big deal I don't doubt that the small block was not the original motor for your '50s looking rod, unless of course your '50s looking rod was a tri five chebby. It should be about the same as any other engine swap. Bruce pretty much lined it out for you so follow his lead and you should be golden.
Performance wise, - a backwards step. Looks wise, yes, the flathead is cool, but a sbc can look neat with finned valve covers and multiple carbs etc. Not many flatheads in T buckets!
Here's my opinion based on real world experience. A stock flathead V8(headers and duals will wake it up and provide the best, easiest improvement in performance) is about perfect for a small light car like a T or A. It will provide all the HP( more than enough) you need in such a car. A simple 3 speed manual is perfect as well. If you can't drive a stick, now may be the time to learn. If there are physical limitations I can see spending the money for the automatic. If you go automatic here are the two best choices IMHO. Number 1. The C4 three speed automatic. The C4 is compact for an auto, it's very efficient (one the the best...great for a low HP flathead) and after market packages are available like Flat-O Matic. The C4 can actually be built stronger than a C-6 but honestly for a Flathead, stock is more than enough. Number 2. 1951-1953 Fordomatic 3 speed (operates as a 2 speed). The main advantage here is that it came stock on Flathead V8s like the ford Victorias from 51-53. It's a bolt on. It's air cooled eliminating the need for the trans coolers. It's era and has a "cool factor". It's really a good design not to be confused with the later early 60's light duty FordOmatics which were true 2 speeds of very poor design. I had the pleasure of riding in a 51 V8 Victoria. I was impressed with the peppiness of the car and the ****er smooth shifts. As with anything technical/mechanical that's 60 plus years old, dialing it in and finding someone who can dial it in for you can be a challenge. That's really part of the fun at least for me. I've owned my flathead for a number of years. I ran it in a true 50 Ford Business Coupe and I was more than impressed. The car could easily keep up in traffic and then some. I had a 216 stove bolt Chevy equipped 52 Chevy Coupe, another true business coupe. That car was like driving Miss Daisy. 50MPH was what it liked. It was like driving an antique whereas the Ford was like driving a modern car. With that said the flathead is in storage at the moment. I struggle with putting it back in my F-1. The F-1 has a 302 and frankly it's adults only. It will fly. 2nd Gear is a freakin blast! I almost feel it's a waste to run it in the F-1. One day I hope to put it into a car like you describe....A light car like an A or T, where the full power of a Flathead can be enjoyed. As long as the rods, block, and crank are good a flathead is really not that bad to build. The expense comes in finding a good block. As long as you have a good one top start with...they are not too bad to build.
WOW! Thanks! There is a ton of great information here. My feet are too big to allow a clutch pedal even with my extended width foot well, so automatic it is. My plan is to drive this thing every chance i get, maybe for this rod a tricked out SBC is best. I know I can still achieve the cool 50's / early 60's look with available parts. I supposed a SBC with a multi carb setup would look and run well. It is easy to get caught up in the memories of the flatties running around, but that was a very long time ago. A Flathead may not be the best choice for the DC/Balt beltways anyway where speeds go from parked to 80.
Bigfoot, I'm over in EC, not far. My sedan weighs a lot more than yours, 52 flattie, 5 spd, 3.55 gears in an 8" rear. I can cruise at 60 about 2200 rpms, have had it to 80 on I-70. If you choose flattie, talk to Bill Coleman (Coleman Bros), he's still building engines including flatties. Use the c4, sell the sbc/trans as a combo. Speedway has a complete c4 changeover kit. Richard
WOW! I am right off of rt 108, they call it Elkridge but it is much closer to EC. MANY years ago Bill did the machine work on my first car (and several after) a 1969 AMX. Sent the heads to Ladds. Did not know Bill still did work since he sold the business. I will check him out. THANKS for the tip!
Bruce, I have to question this statement. I have a complete '50 Ford engine and transmission in my "T-Tub", with the front mounts on the water pumps, and the rear mount on the back of the transmission. The transmission mount is stock, and it's way back on the tail shaft. I don't think Ford would have built them this way if they thought there would be any problems. I have never heard of a bellhousing failure in a "shoebox" Ford.
It's quite a span, and the trans to be used is designed with SBC side mounts in mind...those of course go mid engine and almost balance all the weight there. I'm sure going with the long span of mounts would survive, but I think it would be easy to mount the flatty on 4 pads rather than two as long as tabs for them have to be welded into the car anyway. I believe excess span there has been a problem for some '55 Chevy people who have used late setups with early front mount, '55 bellhousing mounts deleted, and a simple crossmember added for the trans mount at rear... I just don't like it, all that aluminum so far from the next support. Earlier rides at least used iron. Remember the flathead's replacement, the Y block? Those skirts were to rigidify the engine itself and to deepen the connection with trans.
Bruce, You're probably right about the aluminum parts and Chevrolet's, but this setup is steel and cast iron from end to end. I know I was kinda' amazed when I got it in and saw the span between the mounts. I think I'm gonna' coin a new "Old Ford" saying : " Steel is stout, from front to rear mount". Tubman
I have the t-5 w/aluminum adapter, so fairly long span, but I think the '35 frame tends to keep it ridged. Anyway, no issues with it.
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