Built my first TF at 18. I could tell stories all day long about the absolute RUBBISH I had to send back to machine shops to be re-done, and the parts I have chucked after some "professional" has fucked them up to the point where they are beyond repair. Judging by some of the fucking junk I have seen over the last 40 years, I think a lot of machine shops pretty much cross their fingers and count on the end user not owning a set of mikes or a burrette...I could literally fill this page with specific examples I have seen over the years from local machine shops, but I am pretty much done with these threads. Yall have fun now...
Great info. I'm set. I'm tearing into it. Will post pictures as I go. I've built 2 "stock" small blocks. Never got myself into any performance mods so I'm comfortable doing it just not a pro. I am very pleased with everyone and their opinions, ideas and the time they took to help me. I really appreciate you all. I'm looking for a road worthy build. Yet something that has nuts and sounds great at a red light. You all are awesome.
You realize that sounding great at a red light is the unintendend consequence of something that is built to go like hell, right? The engine is actually struggling to stay running at low rpm, yet out ears find delight of that rhythmic yet laborious fault. The idle quality is secondary. Having the idle quality as a goal is something I will never grasp. Cars are meant to go, not idle. When an engine goes like hell, it usually idles like shit. Bruuup bruuup, bruuup or - boombubaboomboom - boombubaboomboom is something that happens because of it.
Completely understand. I'm not looking to sound like a set of drums at a light. All I'm saying is when my roadster sounds like a geo metro, somethings gotta change. Of course the outcome of the drive outweighs the sound at a light. But come on, a roadster should sound a little better than the neighbors Kia.
If you're going to buy a set of aftermarket aluminum heads and are pretty much only going to be street driving it, I'd stay in the 180-190cc intake runner size. I'd do as a few people stated already. Disassemble the engine, get the block cleaned and measure the bores and align hone. I always suggest getting it magnafluxed for cracks. A set of cast flat tops is cheap enough if you want to go that route, but if you do use the old pistons and clean them in carb cleaner, please be sure to oil the pin bores in the pistons. I don't know how many times I've had to press a piston off because someone cleaned them in carb cleaner and left them dry, and then they seize up. If you want the sound of a bigger cam go with one of the Thumper cams they do sound pretty good and perform decently as proved to me by a 454 we rebuilt with a hydraulic roller Thumper cam. I personally am no real lover of the Vortec heads, but that is just me. Are you running anything that has to bolt to the cylinder heads? This is a question you'll have to address if you go with the older non-posted camel hump heads. You can search out a set of 041 castings if you want the small chambers with the bolt holes in them, or you can try to find a set of 292 castings. Their are also a variety of aftermarket cast heads that are decent.
Sounds like I will be replacing pistons so will get some decent ones. Will put the thumper to thought. Will spend more than I want so looks like I will drop off to machine shop and start there. Will have to purchase a set of aftermarket aluminum heads around March of next year. Will attach price list from local machine shop to see if it sounds like a good rate. Thanks!
Speedway offers flo-Tec aluminum heads 180cc intake runners 2.02 1.60 valves complete for $720 a pair. If it's a hydraulic lifter motor with say 6000 rpm limit you don't need a bunch of high dollar parts.
Prices at that machine shop are cheaper than I am, so I'd say pretty decent prices. I would also suggest the old Wolverine Blue Racer I think it was the 350-300hp cam. It has a decent sound to it and performed pretty good all with lift around .450. I'll see if I can find the specs. I don't even know if Wolverine Blue Racer is even still available they had some good performance street cams. I will also suggest trying to stay away from the Chinese manufactured intake manifolds. I've run into a few with the wrong intake face angle.
Great thanks! I keep going back and forth with my ideas. I don't need top notch at all. Pistons come out in the morning then it goes to get cleaned and magnifluxed. Going to use same crank, figure out which pistons to buy and get some used heads and have them rebuilt. Don't know if 64cc is what I should look for? Or the 58? Learning about squish factor and all so it's just a confusing thing for me.
I was steered away from the Flo-Tech heads by the guy who is doing my engine. Try to find something that is US cast and machined. I'm using Speed Pro cast pistons H100CP myself. Look at Summit, you can find better deals for around $190 a set.
So with those pistons, do you know what cc your heads are and deck clearance stock? Any idea on head gasket thickness? Thanks.
Those pistons should work with any head. Look at the piston listings at Summit, most have a table that shows the CR with what cc head. Mine (.030 over) with a 64 cc head comes out at 9.7:1, I have to finalize that when I meet with the engine builder today. I have no idea yet on the gasket thickness yet, but should be able to come out close to what I want.
I get slammed on option A all the time. I tell someone "This is all you have to do" and the missus or other people who are close to me say, "You can't expect them to do it just because it is easy for you, go show them." Its not just motors it is everything that we do, bodies, paint, chassis work, even simple things like welding. You can build a pretty stout street small block with basically stock parts or reproductions of stock parts. The 355" street motor that we have been running in the Raven's roadster is all basically stock pieces or reproductions of stock pieces. You have to assemble them correctly and they have to be the right stock GM parts but it is not majic. I think it comes down to natural talent, you got guys like @JOECOOL or @31Vicky with a hemi that are very capable and are natural builders and then you got the rest of us dumb clowns. You can look in a book and learn everything that there is to know about the right parts and how to screw them together but that will never trump natural talent when it comes to building and tuning.
Well said sir. It's a science that comes natural to most of you. Most people are just "parts changers", like myself. Then there is "you guys", you understand the meaning of what it's doing and why. From wanting to add a little more than "stock" to my stock engine, I've heard a lot of opinions and ideas. So much that I don't think I want to chance many upgrades. Haha. I'm back and forth now. Probably just leave internals how they are and upgrade cam, intake, rebuilt heads and leave everything else alone. That might get me a couple extra hp without trying to get a science degree. You all are great people. Much respect for each and everyone
if you put it that way, easiest HP is with a small shot of nitrous, really fun stuff. Or get a turbo and build a kit yourself and boost it to 6-8# and grin so hard your face is gonna hurt. cylinder pressure w/ a proper tune is fun stuff too!
LMFAO now you are talking addiction my friend. First turbo installation I ever did was a single on a small block, that turned into dual hair dryers and adjustable waste gates so that I could dial it down for cruising and twist it up to Oh Wow for getting serious, which in turn involved more fuel supply and o-ringed block and so on and so forth. I finally had to go into boost rehab. Don't even get me started on nitrous. I still have to stay completely away from that stuff. I have even considered boost and N2O for more fun than is legal. I have tried 12 steps, and Malibu Rehab and I am just an addict and can't help myself. Simplest cheepest more poop for a stockish small block is a mild cam a set of good headers and a single 4 on a stock or after market intake. easy peezy for starters and later when there is cash get jiggy with it.
First boosted hawg was a Paxton from a Corvair on an 86" Bowling ball. Wasn't my bike and I wish I knew where that one was today. Lost track of the owner and the bike, both were a lot of fun to be around.
You can still do a good build with the stock pistons you have. Yeah the 624's are noted for cracking. The best bang for the buck street head are the Vortecs, I personally don't like them but many people have good luck with them. I don't like them because they are just as thin as the 624's and just as prone to cracking as the 624's. Their is a set of vortecs that came from GM with hardened exhaust seats. These heads are less prone to cracking, but still need to have the guides cut for higher lift cams. These also will bump the compression up with the stock pistons. Here are some of the specs of cams from Wolverine which was bought out by Crane cams. The first is the one I wrote about in the earlier post. It is part # WG-1170K it's a hydraulic flat tappet. Duration @ .050 is 224*int 224*exh Adv. 292*int 288*exh .450int lift .450 exh lift 114* Intake centerline 114*exh OEM# was 3896962 350HP L-82 350 Another street cam I liked was WG-1159K Hyd. dur. .050 214*int 224*exh Adv. 280int 290exh .443int lift .465exh lift 107 int. centerline 117exh Good idle, good low to mid torque
Awesome thanks. I will use that info and run with it. Removing pistons and crank right now. Checked bore and it's 4.0, we'll more like 3.992. Stroke I got 3.48 so that for sure let's me know it's never been oversized. Will post pics as I go with this thing. At this point I will get it hot tanked and go from there. Will check into that cam. Thinking of vortec and non vortec. Vortec I will have to find more info about.
Several things with the vortecs are you have to buy an intake manifold specifically for them. You have to use center bolt valve covers or use the center bolt to perimeter bolt adapters. Are you going to go with roller rockers? If so you need the ones that have the rail/guides on the tips of the valves. If you use stock type rockers you will need the rail/guided tip rockers. This is the style I'm talking about. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6935-16/overview/make/chevrolet I will warn you to stay away from the Pro-Form roller rockers I've had major problems with them in the past. That was about 20 years ago now they may have improved but I will never trust them again. Here are the stock style rockers. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12495490/overview/make/Chevrolet If you have studs and guide plates installed on the heads you have to go with the regular non self aligning rockers. Your local machine shop can help you their. The local shop may even have a set of vortec heads for sale.
For a mild street build without huge lift camshaft the stock style rockers will work just fine. I would go with a good polylock instead of the stock style adjusting nut, and make sure the rockers have slotted balls for better oiling of the rocker. The stock style rockers will be cheaper than the roller rockers. I'd suggest figuring out what heads you want to go with before worrying about rockers yet. Check with the local machine shop they may just have a set of either vortecs or camel humps that someone never paid for that you can buy for a decent price. Where are you located?
The Jalopy Journal
