I have the 36 totally blown apart for the 3rd overhaul in it's lifetime. I have been pondering what would be the best way to attack this. I have thought about painting, colorsanding each piece and then wrapping up in blankets ,until it is complete then trying to fit all the pieces together. But, if any adjustments need to be made....I am screwed. Now mind you, this truck was a running, driving p/u 6 months ago, so a lot of fitting won't be required. My theory is , if I do a piece at a time I will be more likely to do a better job on everything, attention to detail. What do you think?
Man, I'll try... Secure body mounts, as in, bolt it to the frame. Fit the doors to lock pillar first, cause the lock pillar won't move. Door hinges and the door will adjust at the cowl. IF the door opening is out of square(one gap's consistent and even, but another tapers--for instance, the vertical door gap's perfect but above the door it goes from 1/4" to nothing)--shim the body up until the opening's squared up. In other words, I shoot for a (near)perfect gap and flush fit at the rear of the door and work forward. Hood top and hood sides are next, then grille shell.You CAN fit the hood after the shell--some people do--, but why? Seems easier to make a shell fit a hood than make a hood fit a cowl(read that, cut to fit) after the fact. If you run fenders, fit the aprons with the hood sides. Then fenders and boards. As far as painting it apart, hey, that's the optimum way for a neat finish, but it don't work worth a damn if it's a metallic color You can do whatever sequence you want with a non-solid color(metallic) as long as the doors/body and hood are painted at the same time. Fenders, box/bed, roof....all that stuff will color match well enough. Jambs you ask? I do the inner doors before the outer and mask.Same for the hood panels(unless there's a bunch of louvers) I do the body jambs AFTER I paint the body(IF I CAN'T do it ALL at once). Something else, you might want to colorsand your panels and polish them JUST BEFORE you slap it back together. That allows the paint to breathe, cure AND shrink(and it will ) I know I'm just a nobody, but it works for me. Good luck with it---your stuff always turns out good anyway.
Hey, You didn't say nutin' about how any of the sheet metal fit prior to disassembly....... If the body mounts or door latches or hinges arn't tits to begin with, now would be a good time to do something about them. Tryin ta get desent panel alignment, if any of the above arn't up to the job is like pissin in the wind and wondering why ya got wet. How'd the doors fit in the openings, not a strong suit on trucks in general, ya may be lookin at some jack work to move that a-post or cowl around? That's not somethin you would want to tackle after paint. If you do shoot the jams first, be sure to back mask prior to goin to shoot the exterior. That damn overspray can sure mess up a good paint job. Swankey Devils C.C.
First, you'd be surprised how something that fit beforehand suddenly won't "fit" now. You will still have to tweak each panel even after (or moreso) painting. You didn't count on that 1/8" primer/paint buildup on the door gap did you If you sand/prime/paint each individual part off the car and treat it as an individual, assuming your paint matches each time perfectly...when you re-assemble it, each panel will have a different reflection and you'll be able to tell each part was painted/sanded/prepped individually. The "lines" or "shadows" in the body won't line up. Go to a show, sight down some cars, you'll see what I mean. Ever notice on a car that the ends of the door "shadows" or paint "shinyness" doesn't match the same reflections of the quarters/fenders? That door was prepped off the car, and most likely painted separate, but not always. Do the whole car at once, overlapping your sanding from one panel to the next. Paint the whole car at once to avoid color variations. Don't treat each panel as an individual, this will wind up in the final spray with mis-matched reflections and "doughy" edges that look like you sanded the edges inward towards one another for lack of a better description. It's hard to explain in type. mercman1951
Total nonsense! You never "overlap your sanding from one panel to the next". You finish it so that it's smooth & you *have* no "door shadows or paint shinyness" with "different reflections". and you hope to hell there is no 1/8" think primer on the edges (chip city). Actually you don't hope, you just don't do it. I just did a black '55 truck for a friend (everything painted seperately) & there is *no* difference from one panel to another - they're ALL slick as owl shit! What you do is pre-fit the parts before you paint. earl schieb got the sequence pretty well down pat. Once everything fits & you're ready to paint, you can paint it one peice at a time *if* you keep the same air pressure, paint visconsity, humidity, temerature, etc. (not easy to do over several days). Not as important with solid colors BTW. If you're shooting metallics, make sure you paint the parts in their correct oreintation; that is, hang the doors verticaly etc. - if you lay them down the metalic will settle & they'll be a little darker. I like to paint everything seperately & do the jambs & everything all at once so there are no tape edges. HTH, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Remember 1/2 of the population is below average.
Interesting. I'm sure everyone has their own set of rituals. I am not a pro but have painted quite a few completes. I am just always looking for a better way since there are guys out there that are much better painters than I am. I am reading all of these...... The panels fit pretty good to begin with except the hood/grill area which always has to be massaged because it has a lot of movement.
It's not a question of rituals: it's just learning the proper way to do it. If you don't fit the doors first, & you get all the frontend lining up perfectly, then you put on the doors & they don't fit right, you have to go back & re-do the frontend 'cause shimming the body to fit the doors screws that up. it's even more important on later cars since the fenders line up more with the doors. BTW adjust the doors (& hood & trunk) with the striker or latch out so that it dosen't influence the alignment. Once the door lines up right, re-install the latch in position so that it dosen't change that alignment. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Since I gave up hope I feel much better.
I gotta disagree with ya on that one Paul Any job I do that needs to be a "step above" the rest gets blocked and squared ACROSS the gaps, panel to panel with the longest board I have(22" currently, but lusting for a longer one )--everybody's seen one of those cars that the horizon reflects perfectly straight down the length of the body---THAT'S how you achieve it. Just for arguments sake(and I DON'T wanna argue with you ), stand two...or better yet, three pieces of mirror next to each other, then hold a broomstick or something straight in front of the mirrors. If they aren't perfectly aligned in the same plane, the reflection from mirror to mirror will be OFF---no ifs, ands or buts. 999 out of 1000 body panels have some sort of compound curve, and they will not be perpendicular to the adjacent panel. It's been a long time since I've seen a door skin I could lay a straight edge across and not see daylight somewhere around it's perimeter. I ain't tryin' to knock your work either dude--just pointing out a 3 dimensional fact.
I find that you get a better finish if you do all of the body work with the panels on the car. you will want to take them off to paint the jambs but when you spray the outside put all of the panels back on. if you spray everything at ones you get an even finish and you dont have to worry about color matching problems from panel to panel. even a couple of degrees temp difference will create a differentb color and sheen.
What type of material is your board made of? I have thought about buying some really long boards for the final sanding/blocking. Where's a good place to buy these?
So you're saying you can't get a panel straight when it's off the car using straight edges? And you can't line up adjacent panels evenly? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Hey old man, have you lived here all your life? "Nope - not yet."
Like I said, I usually paint everything at once (but off the car). But if I can't, I have no problem matching the panels as long as the temp & humidity are *fairly* close to the same. Remember you can't lay the doors & such down flat when painting metallics. A couple of degrees is not going to make a difference in color, & *no* (even 30 degrees) difference is going to change the shine when I'm through sanding & buffing. Now, if you're doing graphics, then of course you have to assemble the car & line everything up. In that case, I do the jambs first & tape them off, only *after* all the priming is done. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" If you can't take the heat, get out of the nuclear reactor.
AFS. 877-459-7167 Theirs is a soft foam with a stainless shoe and internal removable rods that allow for variable flexibility. Not cheap either Also have a set of Durablocks, harder, less flexible, made of EVA rubber. A "good" P&B supply will have Durablocks. The AFS blocks will prolly be either mail-order or at an event. I got mine from a vendor at Hot Rod Reunion in BG-KY year before last. This guy was selling Martin hammers, dollies, Clecos, panel beater bags, etc. All that stuff gives me a boner This topic sure went awry......I thought you just wanted to know about aligning body panels
That's the description I was trying to get in my post. Everyone has their own way of doing it, and it's certainly easier to show someone than explian it in type...but I've never been happy with the "one panel at a time approach", I can pick those cars out at shows from 40 feet away if done improperly.
You can pick out most anything done improperly from 40 ft. away. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Easy on the Giggle Cream!
Look at the high end cars out there, look at Denises' Olds. Earl here did the Olds, the work speakes for itself. Fit panels and work the whole truck. Only hitch will be that nasty 4 piece hood.......not that a 3 pice is any better, it aint@!
I have very little experience with paint & body work, but I would like to learn. I'm going to do my own work on my 50' chevy shop truck. Could someone please explain "shimming the body" to line up the doors, or just go back over the door alignment procedure & type really slow, so I can follow it? Thanks, Shaun.
Earl, I have a dumb question from someone that doesn't know... What is the reasoning behind painting the jams after the rest of the car is painted? I've always heard you were suppose to paint the jams first then do the exterior. I'veseen your work, there must be a reason behind this? Gene
In response to your question above, it's sometimes easier to "feather in" the newer paint without 'seams' onto the existing paint...if the jamb paint is reletively fresh. You can even "melt" the newer paint into the old by fogging reducer on the "transition area" between the two surfaces after spraying. We used to do this technique on quarter panels that met a roofline we didn't need to respray. You could actually "melt" the fresh paint (clearcoat) into the existing factory clearcoat and if done right the repair area was virtually indistingishable from the original paint, and there was no need to shoot more of the car than neccesary. Obviously this may not work in all situations or will certainly not work with single stage paints or heavy metallics, but with BC/CC systems, it was even easier to do in door jambs due to the shadows, curves, etc. The other alternative is to spray the jambs, let them dry, then reverse tape them so you don't have sharp "edges", (PM me for more details on this) then go back and respray or fog in color afterwards, usually after you wet sand the "mist" down, so there is no hint of a tape line. This equates to shooting the jambs twice, in effect, but probably makes for the best job if not done all at once. In really high-end paint jobs, they might mask off the car in such a way that they can spray the jambs and exterior panels all at once so there is no hint of any respraying. The entire shell is sprayed at once, in effect. All of what I am describing are techinques used in 2 part BC/CC paint systems, where a clear is sprayed over a base. Single-stage or heavy metallics need some adjustments and expertise depending on booth time, guns used, air pressure, and humidity/overall temperature. Once again, there are several ways to do everything. Paul "aka Tha Driver" seems to be the authority on paint jobs despite several people's perspectives on things. Ask him for the definitive answer and make up your own mind.
If there's one thing I've learned about paint & body, it's that everyone has their own tecnique. I disagree that you can't blend in single stage or heavy metallics: I've blended both & also metalflakes & you couldn't see the blended area. Base/clear is of course much eaiser to do so. Also, I use blending agent instead of reducers. The hardest thing is blending new paint into very old paint. The times I spray the jambs first & backtape (like when I have to do graphics) it's usually not a problem to buff out the feathered edges backtaping leaves behind. But like I said, I prefer to paint everything at once - all apart - & that way you leave no edges to worry about. I see no reason at all to paint the jambs last, & in fact have never seen anyone do it - but as I said everyone has their own tecnique. Just like every painter has their favorite guns, & sprays at different distances & speeds. As for shimming the body to make doors fit: that refers to adding shims *under* the body where it mounts to the frame, & is used if the door opening is out of square. Sometimes you may have to jack the jamb with a porta-power to get it square. I've been painting *custom* shit for 34 years, & in that time used just about every kind of paint & tecnique there is. I'm still waiting, however, for folks on the other thread about a "veiling gun" to show me what that looks like - never heard of *that* before! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.
Gene, the only dumb questions are the ones not asked..... ....it's just when you get dumb answers from me that you have to worry I don't as a rule always jamb after paint, but as an example, right now this minute I'm doing a 66 427 Corvette conv., changing it from resale red to the original Mosport green(kinda silver-green). It's a one-year/Corvette only color that I couldn't get a formula for, so it's bucket-mixed like Denise's Olds(I make my own formulas--haha!) This color's so full of metallic, I wanted to make sure all the panels were oriented properly, so I shot it together. Now I can go back and disassemble it(remove the doors) and jamb it. Color/clear will usually invade the cracks(jambs) 1/4" or more, so that leaves a transition between the unpainted jamb and the outer painted panel. When masking, I let the tape hang over the panel an eighth inch or so to catch overspray bounce and eliminate tape lines. That existing 1/4" of overspray makes for a transition area for the jamb paint---in other words, it's already green on this car, so I don't have to spray color all the way out to the edge. A misting of clear with hot thinner around the edge after the jambs are cleared, combined with the tape overhang darn near makes an invisible overlap. That's about as clear as mud, ain't it? Like Paul said, everybody does it different. There's not really a "right way"---there's a LOT of right ways
Hey, Tha Driver; You explained it perfectly. Doing it the right way ain't a ritual, it's a procedure. Which brings to mind a man that asked me to help him on some of the mechanical on a '31 Chevy Cabrolet. He was re-doing all of the wood in the body, wanted to, instead of using square steel tube, that's okay with me, I like doing wood and helped him save $thousands, instead of buying pre-cut wood. He ask me what the most important thing was. I said, don't nail everything down, just slave it in, until you get the doors hung and swinging. Guess what; next time I went back, the pillars were all screwed down permanent to the sills. A year later, he's almost done(he thought!!) and then, at the wrong end of the entire job he hung the doors. Guess what??? He had a mouse in his pocket I guess, 'cause he had the balls to ask me what we did wrong......... Some people spend lots of money, on goodies and a paint job, and then, guess what? if the doors don't fit the car looks like shit I say, if somebody else has done it, and you haven't, listen real close....... .
Even if you aren't going to take the body completely off the frame, for all cars pre-unibody, all the way back to when Christ was a Private. 1) Undo the body mount bolts and put in new cushions, add a couple of flat 'fender' washers between the body and frame attachment at each body mount bolt. That might help later on, to help with aligning the front clip later on. 2) Fit the doors, now, not later. 3) When doing the front clip and hood, the grille has to be bolted in too, because if it's not, the hood latch structure moves around. 4) First step on front clip is to line up the fender to door gap. 4) Next, you'll always need another helper and a jack. raise and lower the radiator mount bracket until the fender-door gap and the hood gap all match. Sometimes a fender will be tweeked from a front end crash that didn't cause a wrinkle, same with hood. Those misalignments will show up and look it over, convince yourself that you need to do something, otherwise, Later you will be sorry!
Earl, next time you need to match an original color, check with your Sikkens distributor. They have a "colormap" book that has just about every solid & metallic color you can imagine, through all shades & spectrums. They usually find one that's right on any original color on these old cars (of course you have to have *some* small peice or chip with the original color). Of course once you have the formula you can mix as much as you want whenever you want. HTH, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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