Hot Rods Just Another 5-Window Build Thread

Thanks Tom, that would be great, as we brought in a setup that was meant to work and it's no good. don't way to spend any more money than need to, its gets expensive with shipping to Australia. and the dollar conversion.

thanks.

 

More progress but I had some help for the day - Dave from House of Fab was over to check things out and one thing led to another, 7 hours later, much was accomplished.

We measured and adjusted the frame, making sure everything is in order. We then welded and re-welded some pieces to keep the frame straight and we checked all the measurements again. We modified the center supports around where the shifter came up and got to the point where we could swing the motor and trans in.

After adjusting as best we could to "guesstimate" where the motor/trans combo should be, I was able to make a first cut on the firewall ....


But, at present, the firewall needs to move about 3 inches forward and the motor will need to move forward somewhat but I first need to populate the front of the motor out to the mechanical fan blade then drop in the radiator to verify just where the final resting place for the motor will be. Then I can make additional cuts to the firewall to finalize it.

Seems like so little but there was much in the way of fine tuning things so I would not run into problems later. I am really stoked at this point that so much was done today - thanks, Dave!

Here are some further pics at some different angles ....

 

Installed all of the front items to approximate my engine location. Turns out the stock fan is too large and would interfere with the lower radiator hose connection. It's a 19"fan so I tried an 18" unit I had laying around and it too was still too big. I called a buddy of mine who has a 401 nailhead in a Model A and he used a 17" steel fan from Speedway. I have it on order and it should be here Friday. But, based on that and other dimensional info my buddy gave me off of his car, I moved the motor forward almost an inch and that has made a real difference. Once I get the fan, I will install it and the radiator to check clearance ....

19" Fan


18" fan


I also tried the stock exhaust manifolds - driver side went great, passenger side ran right into the frame rail. Again, spoke to my buddy with the Model A nailhead and he used two driver side manifolds - he is looking into a second driver side unit for me.



Now that I am very close to the final location of the motor, I am making measurements and marks on my firewall as I get ready to make a second cut. I hope to have it all marked up tomorrow and get cutting ...


Looking at this picture again, I should be able to move the motor forward a bit more - every little bit counts ...

 

So I got the fan in and installed it - looked good until I placed the radiator in place - lower portion of the fan was almost below the bottom tank, ran into the lower neck and the drain cock. It looked something like this ...


I have the same fan and setup except this is the Chemical City Coupe - this gives you an idea of how low the fan is in relationship to the radiator and the ability to cool it. Notice the center bolt of the crankshaft and how it relates to the tops of the frame rails - again the same as my car. For another project I had made up 2 wooden biscuits 3/4" thick. I simulated the height using these as a spacer and moved the engine back around 3/8" for clearance ....

The result looks like it will work with some further tweaking but I have the clearance right now that I need ....

I will probably buy some of that 3/8" I lost by moving the radiator forward like I had done with my roadster. With a bit more work and a custom motor mount including a
3/4" spacer I should be golden ....

 

Really enjoying this build, you're making great progress!

 

Thank you - I appreciate that very much ...

 

Following along, good stuff. Tedious shit but got to do it. I also made a 240 welder extension cord, don't know how else you can get by!

 

Thanks - all that little stuff you don't need until you need it! I can't tell you how much crap I have bought over the years saying this will come in handy or I will really need this and never use it. I probably could have built an entire car with the money spent on that stuff!

 

Nice progress Tom

 

Steve, Jeff - thank you very much ...

 

Not much to report at the moment - waiting on some parts. But I do have some rather sad news. Remember my old 5-window body I sold to a Hamb member in Switzerland? Strangely it was being shipped across the US to go out on the west coast and, apparently, it was caught up in all the flooding out on the west coast and was destroyed. It was insured fortunately but the buyer was understandably pretty upset. A real shame .....

 

Yesm Thanks Tom for this report, I 'm still waiting for other news, apparently everything is still under water, we will have to wait 2 weeks before water drain out... and see the damage... inssurance should cover, but to find antoher body will be hard...best
Peter

 

Do you have someone close by who can access the damage for you? I know I wrapped that body up really good and everything inside should still be inside unless the box floated and got banged around. Even then, if the box is in tact, all should still be/be good inside. Remember I put a bulkhead inside the body to keep everything in the trunk area from spilling forward. This is not salt water we are talking about and although I am no expert on this, all might not be a total loss. I do not know how insurance would do with a partial loss, or, accept the total loss amount and perhaps buy it and take a chance all is not as bad as it may seem. Rust is rust and we deal with that every day as hot rodders ..... water should not have a problem draining out, just the cardboard boxes inside would retain moisture over a longer period of time.

 

My friend Chris is working on it at the moment, but apparently everything is still under water for now...

 

I hope this story has a happy ending. Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

Tom,
Looking good.
One question- How far does the steel fan stick out forward of the water pump?
Thanks,
Gary

 

Gary - I will have to measure it and get back to you for an exact number. But, the fan lays right on the pulley, no spacer is used, and misses on the engine side by at least 1/4 ". On the radiator side I still have some room to move the engine forward, buying another 3/8" or so ... you can see down by where the tranny line would connect. I have to get the new engine mounts Dave has made up for me installed to get a final location ...

New engine mounts raise me up about 3/4" for radiator clearance ...

But my new dilemma is what steering box to use. The Vega and 525 manual boxes would mount right where the motor mount is ... bummer ...
... and I could modify and move the engine mount location either further back or forward about 1 3/4", or, choose either an F100 box or cowl steering setup, both of which ( I have and) would require the same or more work than the Vega/525 boxes ....

We will just have to see what falls out and take the path that most conforms to the period if the build, late 50s early 60s, and the spacing for the starter, pedals, exhaust, and steering column ...

 

It has been a while since my last post - but things have been happening, just slowly. Steering box, motor mounts, exhaust manifolds, and motor placement have been most of what has been done.

First, exhaust manifolds - I needed at least one manifold as the passenger side unit that came with the engine ran right into the frame rail. But the driver side manifold is so massive at the firewall that I would have had to cut a huge amount out to clear the 3" I need ....

The backside of the manifold is huge and the hole would have been just as big. So, I moved that manifold to the pass side ....

The angle towards the front actually works well due to the oil filter location and I certainly would not need to cut the firewall anywhere near as much. So now the hunt is for a driver's side exhaust. After calling around and checking some sources I had, I contacted Russell Martin who deals in Nailheads. The one he had on his website that would have been perfect he no longer had. I ordered a pair of manifolds that should work but I have not yet received them. I hope to have them soon ....

I decided on the Vega box and started playing with placement. Of course, the motor mount is in the way. I played with it and played with it and I could not get it "just right". Then I got a visit from jacksandeuces and a couple other local hot rodders checking on my progress. We talked about my exhaust, got the best placement of my Vega steering box, but they then made a great suggestion that I did not think of - go to a flat fronted fan, use sbc swp single groove pulleys to get maximum setback and I could move the engine further forward at least 1" or more. This would be huge as it reduces the firewall cut. Jack then said he may have some pulleys that would work and I went to see him the next day. He had a 2 groove wp pulley and we then drove around looking for some brake shoes he needed and for a suitable fan for me. When I got home I danced with the motor placement until I had it so things cleared very nicely using the stock Buick upper pulley .....



Everything clears nicely so far. I sourced a set of single groove sbc swp pulleys - wp pulley works great, even bolts up perfect, but the lower crank pulley is too large and will not clear the upper pulley. So, what I have decided to do is to use the stock wp pulley thst is in the pick, and shave off the outer groove of the crank pulley so the fan will clear - not a great pic but you can see how close the flex portion of the fan blade comes to where the pulley will end ....

But the biggest gain in this whole redo is that I was able to move the motor forward almost 1.5", reducing the firewall cut big time. I will have to remake the driver side engine portion of the motor mount and we'll see how much of the frame side portion needs to be trimmed. Once the manifolds arrive, I install them, motor mounts, pulleys, and then make a final decision where I need to cut the firewall ..... this is just huge and I am totally syched!

This foto shows just how far off I am with moving the firewall forward ....


The dimple in the frame is where the center hole in the firewall foot to the right of it should line up - we are talking less that 1.25" and some areas of the firewall cut will need a lot less than that ... we are on the right track now!

 

@tom t Can you please advise us as to the length of the engine - fan to rear of the block?

I thought Buicks were 32" long

Thanks in advance

 

Picked up a set of swp single groove pulleys - the fan pulley was fine but the crank pulley diameter is too large for the Buick and it runs into the wp pulley. So, I had Dave at House of Fab shave the outer groove of the lower stock Buick pulley ....

The pulley actually had a rubber ring inside ....

We cleaned it up a bit more ....

... and it turned out to be a stock looking piece after running it through the bead blaster ...


Then it was on to the Vega mount and motor mount location and trim. I decided to move the mount back so that the front holes of the mount were attached to the back two holes and then make up a new motor mount. I used 1/4" plate vs the 3/16" of the aftermarket item just because it would be extended out and back at an angle more than the other would have been - more extended length. Here you can see the mount trimmed, placement on the block, and location of the Vega box ...


I now cut a slice out of the top of the frame rail to weld in the 7/16 steel coupler to anchor the Vega box on top and I will do a lower mount once I'm sure of the angle of the box.

Now to the new motor mount - with a small piece of wood I eyeballed what I was looking to do - bascially stay over the back two bolts of the mount and to extend the plate of the mount about an inch further back so it had enough to look centered over the back bolt all this was suggested by Dave for strength and looks ...

I cut out what I needed and then made a little jig using the old mount so I would get the right angle - sorry I did not take a picture but will post one tomorrow - and put two tacks to hold it to check it out. It came out pretty good on the first try I think ...

I made a template of the front side truss and will make the other side tomorrow. Then I'll put it all back in my little fixture, weld it up, and pretty it up to finalize it. A good day I would say ....

 

Firstoff, Stovebolt - I keep forgetting to get that measurement for you. My bad ....
Here's a pic of the fixture I made to create the right angle for the new motor mount ...


You can see a piece of steel the same thickness as the new mount under the right clamp. Since the mounts are bolted together overlapped style I have to account for that overlap or else the arm going out to the frame portion of the mount will be either too high or too low.

I welded in some trusses that look something like the aftermarket unit with lighter material than the 1/4" I used ....


Since I am not the best of welders I had to dress up the welds a little bit. The result all bolted up ...

A little primer and paint and I'm done. Once I have my exhaust manifolds I will see if I have enough clearance to use the same design on the passenger side. Next is the mount for the lower two bolts on the Vega box ....

 

I am behind in my posts but I have been busy ...

First off, Stovebolt - engine is 31.25" from the back of the bell housing to the front most portion of the fan ...

While waiting for my exhaust manifolds and pedal setup, I finished off the rear tail lights I had posted a while back about.

The housing for the actual tail light in the old 53 Buick piece was OK and was working but for how long.


So, I removed the tail light socket and picked up a pair of sockets that would fit the hole in the housing and have an easy way to attach them to my housing ....

The two prongs hold the socket in place and using the 3 holes the old socket was riveted to, I used screws and washers to secure the socket in place in the housing so it will not get jostled out as the prongs were not enough to me ...

With this done, I assembled the unit as seen in previous posts and I will next work on the mounts to the frame. They will be similar but of heavier material than the stock 40 Ford pickup rear tail light mounts. Stay tuned .....

 

Got my exhaust manifolds and they look good ....

The driver side looks like I planned it to look so good when it was actually dumb luck ....

The manifolds are from a 61 Electra - I have plenty of room on the firewall side and the angle of the exhaust pipe mount is angled almost perfectly with the mount with just enough clearance ...

Not the best of pics but the flange is actually about 1/4" away from the mount. I am pretty happy with it, though ....

Driver side is set - plenty of exhaust pipe clearance, steering, starter - all good to go. As for the passenger side, the manifold will work with a change to the spin on oil filter adapter but the manifold had a crack to the bolt hold closest to the firewall ...

I have been purchasing all of my Buick stuff from Russ Martin @ www.nailheadbuick.com and he has filed a claim with UPS as it was not that way when it left him and I only mounted the manifold briefly with two bolts only finger tight. I only gave them a cursory look when I rec'd the manifolds, paying more attention to fit than for flaws. Russ may be getting another manifold in that will work or, we might have to weld this one. It will not look as pretty but it works so very nicely with my setup it will be well worth the slight blemish. Besides, it is up against the firewall and will not be so noticeable if that comes to pass ....

Regardless, I am now going to make up a passenger side motor mount that mirrors the driver side unit ... more to come ...

 

Tom, thanks for sending the thread. Good read. Things look like they're falling in place for a great project. Only you could have found that nice 5w body like that Hope to see you somewhere along the way in '16, maybe one of the gathering's or a show.
JM

 

Thanks, John - look forward to meeting up in '16 ....

 

Sorry for the long time between posts - not that I have not worked on the project, just that there was nothing really "new" to report. I am still waiting for my replacement passenger side exhaust manifold, and I have been cleaning up parts off of and for the engine and giving them a coat of paint. I have also removed the mock up motor and I am preparing the actual engine to be cleaned and placed in the chassis, then verify all of my measurements and pieces made up to this point once in the chassis, and then cut the firewall.

My last "non-flathead" build was in the early 90s when I put a 454/700 combo in my 40 Ford coupe that had a 350/350 combo I installed before that one which I wore out. So if I seem a bit cautious, tentative, and down right anal it's because I guess I am. I hate surprises, especially when it would be so difficult to make mods after the fact and everything is all ready to put together. So, I continue to plod along (or at least that's what it feels like to me), as frustrating as it is at times, but I am still enjoying the hell out of this build. If it was a flathead/5-speed, no problem but I've been there and done that more than once. I needed something difference and a Nailhead in a 32 seemed like it was different enough for me and for many others so it seems.

I will keep y'all posted, with pics, when it happens ....

 

Tom, no apologies required.
I'm anxiously following each of your "system integration" issues as I squeeze a Hemi into a '28 with a heavily pinched '32 frame. Your discussion points, analysis & pictures are *really* appreciated.

 

Tom T, I like your build thread! You describe and photograph your projects with great detail that viewers can use on their builds or just enjoy as entertainment. I'll be watching.....If I ever should acquire a 32 it would have to be a 5 window.

 

I guess I haven't looked at this thread in a while. You are doing some fine work there. Doing it right the first time with finesse. I am liking it a LOT!