Technical SBF help needed 302 or 289

Hi all, I am looking at a small block ford for sale on eBay. The seller says he thinks its a early 80's engine. The block number he says is e30e (1983 engine, right?), the manifold has C8AE-9425-B on it (which suggests 1968 ford engine, correct?), and it has a double sump with 'humps' front and rear. Is it a 302 or a 289? Anything else which can be deciphered from this? Any help would be really appreciated!!

 

Probably 83...302..with a 68 intake on it. bolts right on double sump pan was not around in 68.

 

68 was the first year of the 302, so either way it's a 302...my guess is 83 or newer block, early intake

 

If it's an 83 motor it's a 50 oz inbalance

 

Could you elaborate on this? You mean internally or externally?

 

that's the crankshaft imbalance, it changed around 1980. Assuming it has a 1983 crank in it.

it has too much weight on one side internally, so you need to add weight on the other side externally. I think it's at front and back, but you better ask a Ford expert to be sure! The main point is that the damper and flexplate need to match the era of the engine.

 

OK, I understand. I think its time I buy a SBF book...
Anyway, it sounds like its a 302 though.

 

Best way to know what it has is to check the crankshaft number cast into the front counterweight.
1M is a 221/260/289 (2.78" stroke with 28 oz-in balance factor)
2M and 2MA are 302 (3.0" stroke with 28 oz-in balance factor)
2MAE is 5.0 liter (3.0" stroke with 50 oz-in balance factor)

Any of these cranks could have been installed at rebuild.

 

There's really only detail differences between the various 289/302 blocks; the difference in displacement was in the crank/rods. '68 was the transition year, first year of the 302 (and the only year a 4V carb was offered on a 302 until the 5.0 Mustang came along later; a C8 4V 302 intake is worth money to a restorer), last year for the 289. And it's entirely possible to install a 289 crank/rods into any 302 block and vice versa....

 

What year did Ford build the 255? Weren't they built late 70's early 80's.

Could this engine he is asking about be a 255?

 

The 255 was used 80-82 only, and not all that many were built. A de-bored 302, 'regular' 302 heads wouldn't fit as the valves would hit the block and a 'regular' 289/302 intake manifold won't fit the 255 heads.

 

The double sump pan was around in 68. The 289 Broncos used it and it also found its way to marine engines , but as you and everyone else says it sounds like a 83 302

 

Most likely it is an 83 engine with a 68 intake on it, like everyone has suggested.

Don

 

If the motor has the balancer on it the balance weight on a 50 oz goes over half way around a 28oz about 1/4 .

 

Double hump oil pan was used in Fox body Mustangs. The block number is located upside-down where the starter mounts. E3 is a 1983 block when 289s no longer existed.

 

Visually, 289 has one head considerably further forward than the other. that's the easiest way for me to tell

 

Uh, What? There is no difference in the block between a 289 and 302 dimensionally - the heads are in the same location. Not sure I get your statement.

 

63-64 and early 65 289 blocks were 5 bolt bellhousing pattern and carry the following numbers C3OE, C3AE, C4OE, C4AE and C4DE. Mid 65 and later are 6 bolt bellhousing

 

The seller said it was removed from a Fox body Mustang, but that doesn't mean that's what the engine originally came from though.

 

Well an E303 block would make sense as being from a Fox body, and that is a Fox Oil Pan.

 

I don't know what you've been seeing, but it wasn't what you think it was..... All SBF from 221 thru 5.0 have the same exterior dimensions, layout, and bolt holes (except for the early 5 bolt bell housings).

 

Just to round out the 5-bolt blocks, the 221 v8 was introduced in the new smaller 1962 Fairlane. From the numbers it does sound like an early 80's block, but you would need further inspection to see what else is there. -Dave

 

It's not quite that simple; there are some other notable changes that can effect interchange. The early heads (pre-alternator) had 3/8-16 threaded accessory holes, these were enlarged to 7/16" when the alternator showed up. And the late blocks ('83 up) are drilled for the rear-sump pan dipstick. If this hole is missing and you need rear sump, the early Bronco (or an aftermarket) pan with the dipstick into the pan must be used. The last is Ford deleted the clutch pivot boss off the block starting in '75, so if using mechanical clutch linkage you need an aftermarket bracket to replace this. One last oddball is the early 221 ('62-mid 63) had different motor mount bosses (and mounts); these can be identified by their two (instead of three) core plugs on the side of the block.

So generally, if using a front sump pan, any '65-up 289/302 block will work. Rear sump, a '83-up will be preferred.

 

Steve,
I acknowledge the differences you pointed out, but I was generally referring to heads, manifolds, front covers, and oil pans being interchangeable, and particularly to say that there is no difference in depth or offset of cylinder heads. You can add to your list of quirks that '73-'76 blocks have taller deck heights, 302s have deeper bores than 289s, and roller blocks have taller lifter bosses.

 

Ford Racing also sold a rear sump pan with the dipstick in the pan. Also the motor mount bosses; The earliest 221/260 blocks employ engine mount bolt holes that are six inches apart, identifiable at a glance by the use of two freeze plugs. When the bolt holes were widened to seven inches as a means to improving noise, vibration, harshness and structural integrity, three freeze plugs were used. This change was adopted early in production in the 1963 model year.

 

Just to clarify . . . a standard 302 intake will fit on a 255 motor but the ports in the 255 are terribly small and look like miniature ovalized cleveland/385 intake ports. You would have a horrendous step if you didn't open the intake port up to match the gasket/intake from a 289/302/what have you.

I got one in a 66 falcon parts car I bought once . . . the only thing that was worth anything was the crank as at the time they were relatively desirable for guys running NMRA factory stock as they had hollowed throws and are the lightest 3" stroke windsor crank Ford made.

 

Would this imply that the 83 had the Quad intake? I would say a previous owner had to swap manifolds in order to run a 2v...

 

Anything could have been swapped in the last 40 years or so, kinda like digging up a 5 year old thread, heck, OP may have stroked it by now

 

Waaaay toooo muuuch info! Are you trying to impress people with your knowledge, or answer the OP's question. Yes, it's an 83 block and Fox-body oil pan. No forged pistons or roller cam until 85. All SBFs were externally balanced.

 

2016 question/thread...you're 5 years too late to help the OP