Hot Rods Flying Flatheads

Thought some of you would get a kick out of seeing a Flathead equipped with a prop hub for use in an airplane

 

Say, Woodie...That wouldn't be a replacement for a Model B in a Pietenpol, would it?
Actually, there were a few different aircraft that used '32 'B' 4 bangers.

 

Don't know about that, I came across the photo in connection with an aircraft company that was located in Okay, Oklahoma

 

There was at least one flathead cast from aluminum, don't know if aviation was the intent of an experiment on Ford's part..On the cover of early 50's HRM, had a blower on it..

 

The Flathead is neat but there were a lot of kit built planes that used VW, Corvair and even old Hendersen motorcycle engines.

 

Here's a Fordbarn discussion of that that same engine shown above.
If that is an aluminum block, it's pretty rare as Henry only made a very few
of them - one being in Lexington,KY years ago. The HOT ROD magazine
had a good write up about it.
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118122&showall=1

 

I saw a plane with a flathead at the Antique Airfield in Blakesburg, IA at their annual fly in a few years ago. It didn't fly in, I think it was one of their museum planes.

Gary

 

Airplanes and water cooled engines normally don't play together very well

 

http://v8seabee.com/
http://www.quietaviation.com/programs/qtpower.html
http://airpigz.com/blog/2010/11/29/algie-composite-aircraft-lp1-385-mph-at-fl290-145-gph.html

 

There actually were quite a few purpose built..

 

Yeah, those Merlins weren't very useful at all. Sorry man, JK

I can imagine even with an aluminum flathead block, you'd have to factor in the weight of a heavy cooling system. Not as much of a problem in a car.

 

I'm not saying it's never been, or is done. Out of production airplanes, like the Seebee noted above or kit airplanes, sure, they are a cheap alternative. But you don't see the manufacturers doing it, like Beechcraft or Cessna. Extra weight, extra complexity, less reliable.
Merlins are one of the coolest engines ever built......but that was over 70 years ago. They are obsolete by todays standards.
No one makes a water cooled airplane from the factory today

 

Interesting that the outpot doesn't seem to be on the crank centerline?(or are flathead blocks that deep?)
Usually that means a gear reduction setup. Did you really have to slow even a flattie's rpm down?

 

I remember seeing flathead powered wind machines in the SoCal orange groves when I was a kid

 

I bought a flathead that had been on a wind machine a few years ago. I didn't get the drive and didn't ask if they would sell the prop. The seller's father or grandfather had two of them for his orchard at one time.

 

There was a production aircraft named the "Arrow Model F" or sometimes "Arrow Sport F" built in the mid-1930s that used a converted Ford V8 as its engine. It was a low-wing monoplane that was actually quite nice looking. The plane's max speed was around 100mph. The engine had a 2:1 reduction gear for the prop and was designed around the flathead by a Ford engineer. There was a good amount of aluminum in the engine I think.....to try and lighten it up. There is one hanging in the terminal at San Francisco International Airport. Somewhere in my collection I have production photos of the Arrow F production line with some good engine shots. The Arrow F flathead was no backyard conversion....it was properly engineered. I believe the photo above is an Arrow F Ford V8.

Another production plane powered by a Ford engine was the Funk. A high-wing monoplane designed in the 1930s by the Funk Brothers (I know, great name), some of the earliest ones were powered by a converted Ford model B engine. Subsequent production flipped over to more traditional Continental engines. The plane even survived the was and was produced in 1946-48. Nice plane. There is even a restored example with the Ford engine....real cool. Again, production plane.....professionally engineered conversion.

Back to the flatheads.....Bernard Pietenpol did experiment with a flathead V8 conversion. He designed a side-by-side seating arrangement version of his Air Camper and installed a V8. It didn't become as popular, because the entire essence of the Air Camper was CHEAP, depression-era flying, and model A engines could be had at any junkyard. The V8's commanded a premium.

In the looooong history of folks trying to convert auto engines for aviation use, the Ford conversions by Pietenpol, Arrow, and Funk remain, to this day, some of the most successful. Many Pietenpol still fly and continue to be built with the model A engine. Also, don't forget the Corben Super Ace! A great banger-powered ship of the 1930s that was designed to be built at home.....not many built.

 

Sorry, but I can think of a few... see my avatar for one.

 

There is a replica of the Corben Super Ace hanging inside the terminal in Madison, Wisconsin. They did leave out the banger motor to save weight, since it is hanging from the ceiling over your head!

 

I was just thinking didn't the Corben have a 4 cyl Chevrolet? Lippy

 

Prop speed depends on the pitch of the propeller.

Most aircraft are designed to spin the prop at about 2000-2500 rpm.

The Ford Flathead makes it's peak horsepower at 3600 rpm.

A gear reduction would allow for correct prop speeds at or near the Flatheads peak rpm.

Run the Flathead all day at 3400 rpm and gear the prop down according to it's intended rpm/pitch.

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There was one Corben Super Ace built with a 4 cyl. Chevy in the 1980s. The original design was for the Ford. In fact, Corben himself put out an article on converting the Ford engine for direct-drive prop. All up, only a small handful were built in the 30s. A wonderful illustration on the cover of "Popular Aviation" sort of popularized the plane, but few were built. I suspect for the depression-addled homebuilder, the wooden fuselage of the Pietenpol was more do-able, rather than the welded steel tube of the Corben. Or folks liked the extra cockpit in the Pietenpol. ??

 

I didn't know about the Henderson motor. Cool.

I put a 4 cylinder Lycomming in a vair once, it was almost a bolt in. Almost being the oprtative word here. LOL

The flathead with the prop hub is not an airplane engine, it is for an air boat.

Of I found this pic on the web, anyone got one of these that that don't need under the bench of something?

 

Don't fit under the bench, stand up right in corner..

 

Seb
Have you seen one of those? What is it? Looks like hot rodfodder to me.

 

That is because jets and turboprops came along and replaced the high HP stuff. You don't see large Radial Engines either. They are air cooled. A turbine is overhauled at 10K hours and end of life is at 20K to 30K hours. The large radials are just in the hundreds. The small stuff still around are from the 30, 40s and 50s. They are air cooled because of power to weight for small aircraft 50 to 150hp. WW2 fighters went to inline water cooling because of size for aerodynamic performance not engine performance. Just look up a picture of the nose of a P51 and a P47.

 

Here are some pictures of the Henderson conversion engine I have. Yes it has the gear reduction on it and turns over, I think it is runnable. Gary

 

If you like this kinda stuff, I highly recommend the WAAM Western Antique Aeroplane and Automobile Museum in Hood River Oregon. We have visited twice in the last few years when we headed out to Portland to visit our daughter. The displays are grouped kinda by era/age of manufacture. The cool part is that each airplane on display is often paired with a car or motorcycle from the same era. There are airplanes with full size flatheads......V8/60's......4 bangers.......Hendersons......Harleys......Indians.......and even a 50's sprint car with an upside down Ranger aircraft engine. Great displays......very relaxed atmosphere......great people......great part of the country.

 

I built a Model A powered Corben Super Ace a few years ago. Fun project.

 

Very Cool, If you want to build a Heath Henderson, I have the power plant for you! Gary