WHEEL TECH New wheels, tall and skinny, make them yourself

I built new wood spokes for the wheels on my "truck". Why? Because it needed to be done. I decided that if someone before did it, why couldn’t I? So then, with that challenge, I assured myself that if I failed, then, there would be plenty time enough to seek out someone else to do it for me.

The first job on the project was the wheels, if it hadn't had wood-spoke wheels, I wouldn't have even began. The challenge, the love for wood spokes. I started out with original hubs and rims, the wood was rotten. I decided I would prefer spokes with a hefty look, as opposed to the original spindly look.

First, I got some wood, red oak. White oak, or Hickory would also have been good. Select structural wood, vertical grain (quarter-sawn), with grain direction to longitudinal cut needs to be parallel and uniform, not deviate over about 20% over the length of the member.



Cut the wood so the resulting end-grain is vertical,(Quarter-sawn).
If not less than 45degrees, I laid aside for re-sawing and laminating. Got enough of those to do the trailer wheels. Consequently, when cutting the hub end, have the vertical grain where loads are lateral with the rotating plane to the vertical grain. If not, side loads will tend to shear the grain instead of bending it, (n my mind anyhow) I think bending would be better. Don't confuse the turning of the wheel as putting bending loads on the spokes, as the actual loading, (again in my mind), is longitudinal to the spoke, as the rototating force would tend to open up the gaps of the hub-ends, forcing outward on the spokes. Just my opinion, but so far, with mildly hopped up 250 motor, it'll lay rubber, after 3,500 miles on these wheels and spokes are still tight and true. Hope they will continue on that track!


Cut some more. For 12 spokes, cut at hub end is 15 degrees. Precision is paramount. (Added on 8 March)


You must be constantly thinking of the end product. Each spoke must be exactly the same length as the rest. (obviously)


Round the corners on shaper. Diameter of cutting blade will determing radius of wood removed; Larger radius, smaller diameter of spoke. Obviously, the larger the spoke, the stronger. Cut tenon on the end of spoke with a plug-cutter, then cut ring off with a bandsaw. Getting them all to fit in place, with no gaps is is a trick. I cut the tenon off a couple of the spokes, drilled for a dowell. Then fit the hub ends all together, pressing the last one in, to install dowell/tenon last. Worried about the strength of the tenon, don't be. In crashes the spoke breaks somewhere in the middle, never shears off the tenon.


Set it up to press the hub in, I figured a .005 press fit. When pressed in, it won't come out without busting at least one spoke.


Finished.

 

having been around model T's for years the wood debate is very serious,i will post this

oak for spokes not a good application,

just my opinion,many vendors made spokes for the cars and you gotta have hickory as far as i am concerned

http://pweb.netcom.com/~rickydik/safety/safe3b27.html

 

A heated discusstion over the "proper" wood to use in a wheel? That's pretty funny... like arguing what makes the best buggy whip just before you get into your new chevrolet....

The wheels look top notch. And the craftsmanship? the tolorances? Just impressive. Nice work!

 

Here's a picture I left out, with the spokes forming a circle, before pressing in the hub. Backing up a bit, the fit needs to be where the circle is from .005 to .010, the tighter the better, as long as the pressing doesn't splinter any wood. The rim will 'give', and when it's all together it's as tight as a Gnats-drum. Varnish before assembly, to prevent drying out or swelling when contacted by moisture.

 

I'm still kind of lost? not about your wood working abilities (top notch)? are you on the right message board? those are freaking ugly...man if you can find me some restorer type that will run those monstrosities??? I'll bet here is where you think I'll kiss your ass? no I will point, stare and laugh at you and them.

The "spindly look" is just fine by me...I'll be impressed when you can redesign what Ford did and go fast looking good.

 

Damn, i thought this post was going to be something usefull i could use for my digger.

 

Impressive...very impressive. Good job bro.

 

Snyders Ford parts sells both--Oak-$5 and Hickory-$10 That would be EACH spoke.Hickory is more durable but if cared for correctly the oak would be servicable.Didn't think that would be knowledge that would be on here.When they would dry out and make noise(squeak) my Grandpa would drive to the creek for a soaking.They actually made a machine to make each spoke,like a large pencil sharpener.The old fart down the road had one and DONATED it to the museum--now nobody gets to use it.I tried to get it--Just not hard enough I guess.Still ticks me off--people look at it and can't even figure out what it is!! Don't know what I was thinking about the Ash,except I was working on Ash cabinets last week.I should have said Hickory,sorry about that.

 

i dont see how oak could be a bad thing. when we rig a mobile boom crane at work over areas that need to have the weight dipersed over a large area our tva and osha procedures say that we must use oak timbers to support the load. ive never seen it even dent the wood yet. of course i imagine if given 90 years in the weather with plenty of time to dry out they would crack like a toothpick too.
cool tech article, i think youve just made yourself a new cottage industry if you get the word out.

 

Tight grain pattern in the oak would be my only concern. I really like your hub design.... thanks for the post..

 

Logic, my dear man, Logic. But don't try that on the Old Car self-appointed advocates that want to re-write history, and make Hickory the only acceptable wood, even though lots of marques used Oak. Don't get me wrong, I like Hickory too.

 

I think it's great you can do that kind of work.Me and wood don't get along.Measure twice,still cut it too short and crooked.

When I do that to metal,I can weld on the end to make it right.

Are you in the Denver area?

 

i been working with wood for YEARS, and i can tell you for a fact that Hickory has more strength than oak
BUT
only when you lay it FLAT and bend it. oak will bend and splinter faster than hickory when compaired like that. in a wheel spoke configuration? shit. you'd have to really load the daylights out of them, or be trying to corner at 90 miles an hour to get them to flake out on you.

cool tech, and nice work.

 

I wouldn't know too much... I'm more of a pipe layer.

 

metal "hardness" is tested by the rockwell scale, correct?? is there such a test to compare different types of wood??

 

I don’t question your right to run your board. Wouldn’t presume to.

But; Wood-spoked wheels not hot-rod? says who?

I don't consider 'truck' a hot rod, would have to trash my fenders and bumpers for 'look'. I also realize my disc brakes aren't 'traditional'. Maybe I should hide them behind some finned buick drums?

 

'Truck' not for barter. Thanks anyhow. Only a damned fool bets to lose on purpose. Already have dot3, Ford wheels? Yikes! I do have chivvy steelies for backup to the wood'ns.
Be an honor to race for shits and grins though.

 

what kinda hot rodder doesnt race for pinks.................sheesh.

 

hahahaha, one that KNOWS he's gonna have his ass HANDED to him.

This is a cool thread for a traditional TWENTIES hot rod.

I like your brake setup. Cool truck. Except for the slow moving vehicle sign.

 

Moot point really; most hardwoods were used at one time or the other by lots of car manufacturers, Hedge, Ash, Maple, Oak, Hickory, etc. Don't get me wrong, while I defend Oak for the application, (a lot of wheel makers used it), I love the look of Hickory too, and Hickory is a bit stronger. Even walnut and cherry was used for the 'goldchainers' of the era! LOL!

 

youbetcha.

the janka hardness scale/test is what wood is judged by. they take a .444" steel ball and drive it into the tested wood up to its (the ball's) center, and the force required is recorded as its rating. ratings for any given species varries due to growing conditions, and the health of the tree harvested but...

oak is rated at 1290 janka, and hickory is rated 1820. the higher the number, the harder the wood

 

I appreciate the information, thanks.

 

Well, I think you did a hell of a job! I wouldn`t of had the first idea on how to re-spoke a wood wheel, but I do now! Skills are skills regardless! Love the trailer too!

 

Boy, there are some narrow minded muthers on here.
It may not be as traditional as a Blitz Black 2006 Brookville on Deuce Factory rails with red Wheel Vintiques steelies and Coker Wide Whites, But I kinda like it. I like even more when guys keep the interest in the old skills needed to make the stuff we ripped off the old cars to make them hot rods. A guy who can make his own wheels to order can usually figure out how to do other things too. I'll let him buy me a beer anytime...

 

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/hardcommon.html

more about wood than you ever wanted to know

I can't find my old "strength of materials" book but what it boils down to is that oak is very rigid while hickory is very flexible. Both are very "hard" -- hickory may be harder, but if you're working either of them with hand tools you will certainly want sharp tools!

One table I remember showed a comparison between the two as long, slender columns. Oak was the strongest of any wood, while hickory got a zero -- it started bending as soon as pressure was applied.

Kinda like the old fable about the tree and the reed in a storm.

Oak stays pretty straight until it breaks, hickory bends and recovers.

Would this be better for wheels?

I haven't got a clue. I wouldn't mix them on the same wheel, but one of each would be interesting.

One problem -- there's a bunch of different species that will be sold as "oak" or "hickory". Oak can be red, white, pin, black, etc. There's also several types of hickory and Pecan is often sold as hickory since it's in the same family.

It would be interesting to get someone to look at early cars in museums and see what species their wheels used.

Looked at a book once that specified what type of wood to use for each part of a chair -- rockers, legs, seat, braces, everything was made of a different type of wood to match wood characteristics with the needs of that part of the chair.

 

Thanks Wild Turkey, for the excellent analysis. I'm printing it for my loose-leaf reference book. One of my references says that wheel jobbers like Kelsay and others purchased timber acerages and cut their own, had their wood experts grade the wood. All hardwoods were considered, and like you say, they didn't mix. Another thing I didn't meantion, when I was looking, The oak plank I bought, had enough for 6 wheels in it, was perfect in every way, no pitch pockets, clear through and through, quarter-sawn. All of the 'hickory' (nut tree wood) was pretty, but irregular, and besides that, the oak cost half as much, and I actually like the color better.

 

This is an awesome post and maybe I don't have a use for this today but I might tomorrow.Thanks.

As far as wood applicability, different woods have different characteristcs.
You can make a baseball bat out of Hickory but not Oak. Hickory has some resiliance and allows you to get something extra on the ball. Oak is just hard. Of course ash is best for a bat. Hickory is better suited for tool handles than oak. Oak is denser stuff. That extra weight adds up when engaged in repetative motion like hammering.

What are we saying here? Hickory can enhance the suspension with some flex?. Oak won't?