Projects Drop tank racer donor car?

Hey HAMBers! Ive been a lurker for years but I'm finally posting for the first time.

After searching for 6 years I finally found a local deal on a drop tank (2 actually!) to do my dream build with! They are from a p86 sabre fighter plane. They measure 15ft long by 20" diameter. (I almost feel bad for having to tear apart such a cool piece of folk art. Whoever made the peddle boat put a good amount of work into it)

It's funny that these tanks started off as part of a plane then they were a boat and now one will be a car. Air, water, land


Of course I had to sand down a section to expose that sexy aluminum!


My first concern is the front and rear end. I want it to look like a period correct barn find racer from the exterior. I'm not going to be racing or pushing the limits of this thing at all but I'd like to be able to cruise at 70mph. It seems like a model T or model A would make a good donor car. Can model T and/or A rear ends handle 70mph speeds? Is there another chasis or axles I should be looking for?

Second concern is figuring out what motor to use. I need ideas! The tank is only 20" diameter but I plan to make a cowl/scoop on the top (like the photo below) so the height of the motor can be a little more than 20". I'm not too worried about length with the tank being 15 ft long. I think a motor in the 100-250hp range would be good (I have no idea what this car will weigh?) I'm not picky on the motor, it can be foreign, domestic, motorcycle, etc. However, I plan to run open headers/pipes and I want it to sound LOUD and MEAN like a race car should! I really like the way that a kz900 sounds or even a hayabusa and R1 sport bike. They have almost a high rpm indy car sound.

Any other help/advice would be greatly appreciated!!! THANKS!

 

They sure seem small. How ya gonna fit? Gary

 

A Ford V8-60 would fit, although you might have to do a little work to the oil pan to make it not quite as tall.

(btw we like old motors here, more than modern ones)

 

Early V-8 banjo,tube front axel,4 banger should work.Is that a early Cushman or Mustang scooter?

 

Guessing a Model A front if you can't see the engine I say what was in the corner.
And the rear looks early also.

 

I'll have no trouble fitting, I'm skinny.

I absolutely prefer old engines as well but I forgot to mention I live in texas where 105 deg is common in the summer and I want to be able to cruise around fairly reliably and sit in traffic in this without it overheating. I think a 12v system, high power fans, and alum radiator will be necessary to do that...even on a modern more efficient engine that isn't prone to overheating...

its a 58 cushman

 

Where in Texas? Those scooters are cool,had one and a Mustang in my early teens.

 

Any engine in an enclosed space with no air flow will over heat, these cars were built to run at the flats, not sit in traffic. They didn't have radiators, just a big tank of recirculated water to keep the engine cool enough to run the course and shut down.

 

Insulate yourself from the hot parts.

 

I'm in san marcos area; 25 min south of austin

Yes, I understand this. I plan to build a ram air style intake vent out of the raised cowl behind my head (and possibly another inlet on the bottom of the body) and use a high power elec fan pulling air in then another fan behind the motor pushing air out of some kind of rear vent out the bottom of the body.

 

?? you plan to drive this creation on the street?

why?

who are you trying to impress?

remember that this is a traditional site - you should maybe look for a strange and unique site

 

The paddle boat was pretty kick ass.

 

WOW! There's a lot of questions that need to be considered and planned out for a street car build of something like this.

How you gonna incorporate headlights, tail lights, etc. into it, and still keep "the look"? What's your state laws on headlight height, horizontal spacing, etc.?
How about a suspension systems? You're surely going to want that on a street car. I know in Iowa, you're required to have a shock on each corner to pass the DOT inspection.
If it were me, I'd trim the nose, and form up a round radiator shell as trim. That would give the driver air cooling, then that would pass through the radiator on the way out the back of the car.
As for a powerplant or drive train, I suggest you go with a (relatively) modern donor car with a front engine, rear drive configuration. Four-banger, auto trans, and even use the donor's rear axle. (I'm assuming you have a mid-engine, front cockpit design in mind.)

I'll concede that it would be a hell of an attention getter, and the cool factor would be right up there, but you're opening up a big can of worms for it to be street legal. And where in hell you gonna put a license plate?!

Hmmmm. Does Texas license 3-wheeled vehicles as motorcycles? If so, that may be your "out". Use a shaft-drive bike drive train, with a single rear wheel. That'd relieve you of a certain amount of engineering for the back half.

Roger

 

Someone once ran a lakester that had dual tanks separated by a couple of feet by chassis crossbars. IIRC, one tank seated the driver and the other held the engine. Since you have two tanks, I'd build it with both around this vintage design. Maybe someone will recall and post a pic. You could solve the engine cooling issue by using an air cooled engine, however this would quickly move you away from a non traditional HAMB friendly drivetrain.
To keep it more traditional, I would look at vintage air cooled diesel or aircraft engines as possible vintage power.

 

Great project, hope this helps, Hot Rod December 1949. Bob

 

If you want it to be period correct you need an early 4 banger or a flathead. 20" diameter sounds really tight... you will need lots of bulges in the body work to squeeze everything and everyone in.

 

Drop tanks or wing tanks? You sure you did't interdict a Cuban boat lift sort of deal with that contraption? Those folks get creative trying to make it to Florida. There's a fella east of here who has two wing tanks stuck in the ground nose first on his property.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

The cover photo, Hot Rod December 1949

 

I would go back to the paddle boat design.......lay some sheet aluminum and frame work between the two tanks and go with a shortened T or A chassis with the wheels hidden in the tanks......

 

That twin tank cover car is cool, but those tanks are more than 20" in diameter.

 

Would be interesting to see this done, thought about it myself a few times, though the legal issues would probably be on par for difficulty compared to the engineering involved. I'll be on board if it's banger or flathead powered.

 

If you can sit inside maybe ride on the outside like a motorcycle or Moxie car?

 

I like the twin tank idea much better, given the size of the tanks you have. Or even 3 tanks. Get one more, a much larger version, and use it between the other two! P-38 style! Or use a motorcycle side car if you can't find a larger diameter tank for a cockpit. The driver would be in the middle, the engine could be in one outrigger and perhaps make space for a passenger on the other side tank? Or not. Gary

 

The dual tank idea is cool but I'd really like to stick to the single tank design. I love the traditional drop tank open wheel cars.

I'm leaning towards an inline 6, . Does anyone know the height of a chevy 250? Which of the ford/chevy in line 6 were the shortest/smallest (physically).

Making it street legal: for headlights I plan to use some sort of brackets with lights that meet the requirements but can easily be taken off with a couple bolts and unplugging a few wires.
My plan for getting it registered is a bit of a grey area but will certainly work. In texas we do not have to get our antique vehicles inspected. If I buy a model A or T chassis with title and use the axles and frame rails (with number stamped to match title). I can register it that way and they will never even have to look at it. Technically, it is a model T/A.....an extremely modified one lol. Ive been driving my antique registered cars around daily for over 5 years, neither of which are actually 100% street legal and I've never had a problem. Cops stop me but it's to give compliments and talk about cars. Things are pretty relaxed here so I think as long as I have the correct lights , a horn, and a license plate they won't give me any grief.

 

I know this may sound very odd but a Volvo 121 ci 4 banger and 181 ci six shooter is small, cheap and make good power.
They are stout and should be a available stateside at a fair price.
They look good and comes with a 3, 4 or 4+OD or a Borg Warner 3 speed trans, they have a loose bellhousing and can "easily" adapted to a trans of your choose.

They are known as B20/2 liter displacement, or B30/3 liter.
There is a ton of info on the World Wide Web about them and there is some good aftermarket backing in the US too.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_B18_engine

http://www.v-performance.com/about.html


http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/index.php?cPath=28_1000





Last pic is a 2.2 liter kit for a B20, but you can make your own with Mahle forged Pistons (3rd oversize) from a B21T(urbo)
And you can make a 3.3 out of the B30 :wink:

Food for thoughts

 

This is about the only way you'll be able to fit:

 

Old Volvo stuff is not all that common over here, nor is the knowledge for making it GO-GO-GO really.

As far as running an inline in your tanker, height isn't really an issue, it's width, you can always cut out the top and make a scoop or blister. The later Chevy inliners may be a little easier to find parts for, but I wouldn't rule out a 235 with a Powerglide; that would get you down the road fine and 2 pedals would be easier to fit than three. There's parts for them too and any guy dropping a SBC in his Chev would be glad to sell you one.

Another way to go would be an A banger, but I don't get the impression that's where you want to go, BUT the number on the block would be something to register to AND you CAN make fun power with an A banger for sure! You're not going to find a bare frame or affordable donor car with a title most likely, FYI. Just make sure you get a BOS that meets the requirements for your state (what state are you in?).

I would suggest a flathead though. If you can't find a V8-60, you can make another flathead fit with, again, cutting and scoops or blisters. Another option would be an early SBC. The SBC is considerably smaller than your average Flathead and SOME parts still grow on trees for them.

If it were mine, I'd look for a TT frame. I know a Model T frame should be around 23" wide and I THINK a TT frame is the same width, just deeper, longer, and much thicker material. But it really depends how tucked in and streamlined you want to be. You'll need to modify and fab a lot to get it all inside the tube.

For the rear end, depending on which way you go, look for a ford banjo rear from a V8 car. If you go with Chevy stuff, try to get one out of a 47 Ford Truck; they are already open drive.

Here's a big article in HRM on belly tankers. I particularly like Fred Lobello’s Ladybug.
http://www.hotrod.com/features/history/1602-belly-tanks-the-ultimate-hot-rods/

Here's a pic I snagged off Garagejournal:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51567&page=179



You'll notice that this tank has been modified to be taller.

 

See the V performance link, there is some good info.
There is at least one junkyard dedicated to volvo's, and there a few guys on here who has/had one.

They aren't that rare, and there is all the info you need available on the web.

 

Not opposed to a volvo motor at all. Looks like a simple and solid motor. Do you know what the height and width is of a b20 or b30 is?