Hot Rods What would you do?

My wife wanted a wagon to be a project car.Something to pick away at for a couple years.I found a 63 Fairlane ranch wagon at a swap meet in Jersey and brought it home.The original plan was to replace the stock 221" v8 and 3 speed manual trans with o/d with a 400 horse or thereabout 347 stroker and an aod. trans.But Im getting some feedback from buddies that I should keep the 3 speed manual o/d and run it behind the 347.I have a habit of overdoing my projects and this time Id like to keep it reasonable$$$$.I know Im going to upgrade the suspension and brakes,redo some shabby body work and eventually redo the interior with something that resembles stock.In other words kind of resto but a with a bitchin drivetrain.Soooo my question is has anyone run a 3 speed manual with a high horsepower motor?Am I wasting time and money?If I do the AOD I open a can of worms like steering column ,console,bucket seats and on and on.Opinions?

 

Put a stick in the floor, 4 or 5 speed. HRP

 

What does your wife want?

It took me a while to learn that if I am building something for her, hers is the only opinion that matters.

I put 60,000 miles on a 63 Comet with a stock 260 and two speed auto. 160 hp was plenty for every one of those highly enjoyable miles. It took me 20 years to pick away at getting a nice paint job on that car while I was driving and having fun with it. The only upgrade it had was disc brakes which were great. I did end up parting with it partly because my wife was not comfortable without power steering and power brakes.

 

It all depends on what your wife has in mind. Don't build something she won't drive. If it was me I would leave it alone knowing I had a reliable, economical car that I could get in and drive several hundred miles without worrying about it (I think I must be getting old). Then of course you might need another car for a "toy".

Charlie Stephens

 

not a wagon but, may give you some ideas

 

In my 27 roadster I am running a 331 Ford stroker/424 hp with a 3 speed stick behind it because I couldn't fit all the 4 speed linkage etc in there. But my transmission is a top loader out of a 68 Galaxy that was behind a 390, so it is a little beefy.

It has taken a lot of abuse for the past 26 years, and I have never missed having one more gear to shift. I think as long as your Wife doesn't abuse it, that trans will hold up ok. And, if it blows, you can swap in a tougher transmission.

Don

 

Well,power steering and brakes are important and will come with the Mustang front suspension.But Im still wondering if anyone has run the 3 speed behind a stronger v8.I just think the three on the Tree is kinda cool.

 

the 3 speed and od will handle that hp. Provided it isn't a drag car with slicks and beat on all the time. As stated above what will the wife drive? 3 speed od needs a little bit of thought to drive, it will free wheel in od, you need to think about when to put it in od, ect. A 5 speed is much easier for people used to modern stuff. It is personal taste.

 

My wife trusts me to "make it nice"for her.She says she would't mind shifting gears.

 

..............................My kind of lady.

 

A three speed on the column puts a smile on my face.

If it doesn't work out for you, a five speed / floor shifter conversion can always be a later / upgrade project.

I'd concentrate on getting the beast on the road, first. Make it look halfway presentable, fix the rust, go through the brakes, cooling, and electrics, then blow it apart after you're sure it's what you want

 

I think that sounds like a plan.

 

Not many women really want to shift gears. Ask her what she really prefers.

 

Well I am not a fan of modern OD transmissions not because they are not traditional just because I don't like them real well so maybe you should not listen to me. if it were mine I would either gear it appropriately and get an old top loader 4 speed or leave the old OD tranny in place. The old OD will hold up if it is not wore slick already and your wife can drive like mine. On the other hand if your wife drives like I do even the top loader is in danger.

 

"I don't mind shifting gears" = "You're not wearing THAT shirt, are you?".

 

My lady actually likes both stick and auto. Butt for her stick is for playing and auto is for daily driving.

And for some reason that is beyond comprehension to me she prefers 3 on the tree to anything on the floor.

 

One thing to remember is that the early SBF bellhousing is different than the later ones, the 221, 260 and early 289's used a different block pattern than later 289's and 302's. The next issue is the transmission pattern on the early transmission doesn't mate up with the later bellhousing. I learned this early in life when I built a later 289 to put in my 63 Fairlane, I had a friend drill holes in the aluminum bellhousing so I could hook up the original all syncro three speed. Later I found a top loader four speed out of a 390 Fairlane and installed it. This was before 1970 when they were just cars.

 

That's correct, early sbf had a 5 bolt bell housing, and later had 6 bolt.

 

I know very little about the Ford transmissions (or rear ends for that mater) of that era but based on other observations I bet that the transmission behind a small V8 is not as strong as the ones they used behind there larger V8. Also remember that the rear end will have a low ratio to go with the OD transmission.

Charlie Stephens

 

AOD. Its not a traditional hot rod anyway. I have a late OD auto in my truck, am putting one in my chevy II, LOVE them. Put a decent gear behind it like a 3.73 or 4.11.

 

The bellhousing as mentioned above will be a problem - So if she really wants a stick, get a T-5.
I understand that you think the 3 on the tree is cool - but do you really want to saddle a 400 HP motor with a slow shifting column setup? Might as well just build a mild small motor and not waster your money on the stroker kit and all the stuff to make that 400 HP.

 

302 with a bit of cam, AOD, a cruiser with a/c. Really nice interior. It'll have plenty of power, run cool, not have to worry about it. Just my opinion, I don't know your wife or her driving style.

If it were mainly yours, big block, stick, and slicks, only 2 seats.

 

yep INDYJPS,I think youre right.Seems like the way to go.I got a great deal on a used TCI aod. And I think she may get tired of shifting and the cable overdrive 3 speed may struggle behind the engine I built.I better go buy some powerball tickets.

 

Why do you need 400 HP in a station wagon? Why not build a reliable wagon with OD and highway gears and hit the open road or just cruise it?

 

3 speed od do not freewheel in overdrive. They freewheel in direct when in overdrive mode. The cable operated overdrive lockout will remedy this, but constant manipulation of the cable is a pita. I drove my '54 Ford w/od for years with hardly using the lockout cable. Just remember to park in reverse or it may not be where you left it when you return.
I'm not familiar with the od trans in the early intermediates, but I suspect it is a Borg Warner T86. I am unaware of an overdrive version of the Ford toploader. The T86 is also a toploader, so some confusion is possible. Remember that when Ford introduced the 312 in '56, they chose to upgrade to the heavy duty T85
trans. So somewhere around 200-250 hp would appear to be the design limit for the T86.
Good luck.
Farmalldan

 

I would ask your wife first, about the 'shifting' gears thing. My wife loves shifting gears with a 'three on the tree' ....I asked her recently if she wanted something more 'easy' to deal with, and she said she prefers the 'whole idea of a column shift' because it kept in line with the cars personal 'identity' she said. Some women may actually prefer the 'foot to clutch' motion....just sayin'...not everyone is into the automatic setup. I think if I took out my wife's 3-speed column shifter, she'd not be too easy to live with.....best ask the wife first from my own personal experience what she wants.

 

Those old BW overdrives are great for fuel economy, not so hot for performance applications....

Personally, I've always liked them for a cruiser. They have their idiosyncrasies, but those aren't hard to live with. But a 347 stroker will shorten it's life substantially unless treated with kid gloves; I killed more than a few of them behind stock sixes.... But a mild 289/302 would be just about perfect, and with the low rear axle ratio the OD cars have, it'll be plenty peppy; just don't speed-shift it. Should deliver 20+ mpg in OD, even in town if driven sanely.

As was mentioned about the different bellhousings/trans patterns, you can modify the later bell to accept the early trans. But there's one more item to address; the front bearing retainer on the trans is what 'locates' the trans in line with the crankshaft by 'indexing' into the bellhousing hole. The '64-back trans retainer is smaller, so you need to either shim it to fit the late bell, or swap on a '65-up retainer (which is a bolt-on). Failure to do this can result in premature trans front bearing failure, pilot bearing failure, and clutch issues.

The AOD can be made to fit, but some serious floor/tunnel bashing will be needed, as well as crossmember mods.

 

The best plan is to let your wife drive it as is for a couple of days, and then have a couple of drinks, then listen to what she thinks needs to be done to it!

 

You better do some serious suspension upgrades before going nuts on a crazy motor, or she'll be wrapping it around a tree!
I opted for a modest 289 with 245hp/295torque, with stock suspension, and my Fairlane is adequate for cruising.
I can think of dozens of other rides I'd hop-up before going nuts on the '63. The big issue is the suspension cannot be upgraded without replacing everything... thousands of dollars.
There's a Fairlane Forum, and Ford Muscle Forum, where others have already done what you're attempting.
Learn from their experience. It will save you a lot of headache.

 

What I forgot to mention is the trans has an internal problem and will need to be repaired.Not a big deal from what Im told.But its not currently driveable.I think Im going with my original plan for the AOD.Already planned to upgrade the suspension and the motor is done.I think it will take longer to finish this way but will be an easy driver for her.Anybody want an engine and trans with O/d for a project.Cheap